Sprites INC

Full Version: Rosenkreuzstilette
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
In case anyone's interested, the official English release of Rosenkreuzstilette is out now on Steam and Playism. It's pretty much a Mega Man clone with magical girls instead of robots. If you like Mega Man games, it's probably worth a look. Its sequel, Rosenkreuzstilette Freudenstachel, should be coming out pretty soon.
This game originally released in 2007.

I'm glad to see it finally releasing overseas, but I really don't think that it's worth 10$ at this point. Then again, people keep buying various Megaman emulations on console at this point.

Is this game worth a play? Yes definitely.
Is it amazing? Not quite.
Is it worth 10$? Not really.
I'd rather see it at a 5$ price point but at that point I really wonder if I'm even supporting the developer.

Schwer best girl.
Hell no. This game is amazing IMO. RKS is a terrific game that mashes Mega Man gameplay with elements of Castlevania and even Mega Man X. The art is nice, the music is good and it's generally a lot of fun (though the last stages can be very rough.) The style sits closer to 16-bit and has several nods to other games, like Mario, for instance. You can even play the whole game as one of the bosses, complete with a different storyline. From what I recall, the game also has English voice acting now, so that should be really cool.

It never ever felt like another Mega Man game to me, it always felt like a true successor to the franchise. That becomes even more apparent in Fruedenstachel, where the main character you play as is a boss of this game. A bit harder, but more interesting as all of the attacks you receive are in that character's style. They also give us some "X-Hunters" in that one, so you'll just have to be patient while they finish localizing it. Wink

If you have not played this in Japanese already, then by all means give it a try in English. If you're a hardcore Mega Man fan like myself, you'll love it. When I saw MN9 being announced years ago, I said to myself, "Why do we need that when RKS 1&2 already exist? Just localize them."

Without question, RKS is the well-needed palette cleanser for MN9. Cheaper too. Smile Original price I paid was $20. It was on Playism for $8. This is my Mega Man successor. You're damn right I supported the localization.
Uh-huh.

I'd say it's a little late to sell this game overseas if it released 10 years ago. At this point, I believe most people have already downloaded it.

Besides, the original Rosenkreuzstilette should in no way have a price tag. It blatantly plays like Megaman 4 through 6. As in, the main character plays the exact same as Megaman. Yes, it has bosses that are nods to Castlevania and Megaman X too, but that's about it. The first game is an uncanny Megaman clone, especially if you play it the default way. Grolla mode is different, putting the equivalent of Zero in the game. Still not much. Not to mention there are a few bosses (and a lot of enemies) whose fighting styles have an uncanny resemblance to Megaman bosses.
The game sits too close to original Megaman to me to shell out any money for it, and it's also the reason why I can't say it's a successor.

I commend Freudenstachel at least. You indeed play as one of the bosses, and the main weapon alone makes it feel different. The water physics are actually more like Mario's/Megaman 8's instead of NES Megaman games like so much of Rosenkreuzstilette. That's a few steps forward. The alternate playable character is also in both playstyle and originality an improvement compared to Grolla in the first game. Unfortunately, there's still uncannily similar bosses, and many of the nods to other games are so blatant that I, again, can't call it spiritual succession. In fact, Freudenstachel also takes stuff from Mario games to boot. In one stage this is done so blatantly that it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This is not to say that they're not good games or won't give you a great time. But it's more of a homage than spiritual succession. The latter would be like what MN9 tried to do, except better obviously. Apart from being a homage, to quote myself from waaay back:
Quote:Rosenkreuzstilette does not know what it wants to be.

I could elaborate, but don't expect anything particularly amazing. Or anything that, though good, is worth much of your money whatsoever. In the case of Rosenkreuzstilette itself, you might as well play a good MM fangame and still have a good time, without the price tag. Freudenstachel at least tries to be a bit different, and that's why I might pay for that one.
You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, but out of all the MM dojins I have come across, these stand out above them all. You probably don't play a lot of dojins, like myself. I run a dedicated channel to playing them and have for several years. My primary focus was fan games and MM dojins, of which I found several. Without question, RKS is the most original and unique of these. Plus, it has a dedicated Wikia and a fanbase at that. "Schwer Muta best girl" is a saying commonly used in the VN community and Otaku community, which I'm definitely part of. It's essentially Mega Man for Otaku, but you don't seem to understand that. Sure, many have tried similar projects in various dojin circles, but nothing gets it better than this title. I don't know much about you, you could be some old guy that wouldn't watch an anime if your life depended on it. Maybe you've never read visual novels or mangas. Maybe you had to Google "dojin" to understand what I was talking about.

It's all about the aesthetics and appeal, which obviously you're not interested in. It's pretty clear in my mind that Mega Man is getting an overhaul, MN9 couldn't save the franchise and as far as I'm concerned, RKS is the perfect reboot for fans. Otaku fans. Fans of Japanese culture. Did you even know that the MC is a Gothic Lolita? The old days of Mega Man will still be churned out by fans, but I have a feeling that when the toon comes out, MM will be tarnished and ruined as a whole. It'll be kid stuff, and that's fine - because it was kid stuff. The storyline for RKS is a bit darker than nearly anything in the MM universe, and adding the Castlevania elements to it really sealed the deal for me. I can't wait to read the story in English!

It's unfair to say that everyone played in Japanese, because there are some who have never even heard of it. I don't care if you bought the game or not, but if you've been reading Scwher's blog, you would know that this work was no small undertaking. There are even English voice actors now. This is going to be the experience I waited years for, and having already been familiar with the original game, it'll only be more exciting to play it.

Plus, you know - you can't make wifu robot masters. But there are some great wifus here. Maybe it's not the MM reboot you wanted, but I can guarantee you that you'll rush to this game after the original MM gets the Ben 10 treatment as an online game for kiddies with the Capcom logo. You'll ask erka:es for another game too. These are, and will always be, the kind of reboots that I wanted. They're the best that the dojin scene has to offer for Mega Man style games and stand as equals to the two Tohouvania titles in regards to getting it right.

In other words, the best dojin equivalent to MM is RKS and the best dojin equivalent to CV is Tohouvania. The sequels to both are superior, in some odd coincidence.
Thoughts after playing a little:

The planned English VA was cut, but it's fine because the Japanese VA was good. We do get subtitles though. The game does not have wide-screen support either. The story so far is a bit complex, definitely a bit darker than the "gotta beat Dr. Wily" stuff that MM is made up of. Apparently, people with powers are enslaving those without and using them as puppets in order to make the world in their own alchemical image.
Please tell me this guy is memeing

please
(07-02-2017 10:38 PM)TheFallenAlchemist Wrote: [ -> ]You probably don't play a lot of dojins, like myself. I run a dedicated channel to playing them and have for several years. My primary focus was fan games and MM dojins, of which I found several. Without question, RKS is the most original and unique of these.

First off, I'm going to have to ask you to not pile on the assumptions. Starting with this one. You are correct in that I don't play a whole lot of doujins. Mostly because I don't exactly specialize in anything (except playing a lot of games). Besides, if I had to pay for absolutely everything, those doujins would be running me dry, and again, what do I get out of it?

Quote:I don't know much about you, you could be some old guy that wouldn't watch an anime if your life depended on it. Maybe you've never read visual novels or mangas. Maybe you had to Google "dojin" to understand what I was talking about.

I would have to Google to know the exact meaning of doujin, but I have read manga and watched anime. A lot of them. That's how it hit me that not everything from Japan is good. But a lot of it is outlandish, which also happens to be a problem of Rosenkreuzstilette.

Quote:It's all about the aesthetics and appeal, which obviously you're not interested in. It's pretty clear in my mind that Mega Man is getting an overhaul, MN9 couldn't save the franchise and as far as I'm concerned, RKS is the perfect reboot for fans.

Graphically and even as far as gameplay is concerned, I concede your point, except for another of your quick assumptions. As far as setting and cohesion goes Rosenkreuzstilette, simply put, has a long way to go. You know the big bad uses a Wily Machine for one, despite the character not needing it in the absolute slightest. That was done for the sake of having it checked.
As for MN9, it could have saved the franchise. There's a lot of ifs attached, but that's another story. For all its flaws, it at least didn't have a checkbox mentality with gameplay and setting.

My focal point, and the one you seem to respond fiercely to, is that Rosenkreuzstilette is a far cry from spiritual succession. I mean come on, almost everything is taken from another game one way or another with barely any attempt to integrate it into a whole. It's a problem I see with a lot of doujins and even regular anime and manga: Lots of different things that end up clashing. You can literally point out what games the vast majority of enemies, bosses and even playstyles come from.

And to be honest, I don't think Schwer set out to really succeed Megaman to begin with. Explain the sequel's Mario elements otherwise. Or other uncannily similar elements.

Quote:It's unfair to say that everyone played in Japanese, because there are some who have never even heard of it. I don't care if you bought the game or not, but if you've been reading Scwher's blog, you would know that this work was no small undertaking.

You know there's fan translations, right? And there are some people that play the games but don't particularly care for story, japanese or not. Those two things give me enough reason to say that most people that would have bought the games already played them.

I don't doubt making the game was a big effort. Again though, that effort was not put in what a spiritual successor makes.

Quote:Maybe it's not the MM reboot you wanted, but I can guarantee you that you'll rush to this game after the original MM gets the Ben 10 treatment as an online game for kiddies with the Capcom logo. You'll ask erka:es for another game too.

It's more than "not the reboot I wanted". I quite frankly see it as a decent tribute to the past, but not the future of the MM franchise. Using a near exact gameplay formula of a franchise that has already done most of the things it could, and the Classic series formula no less (Well over 15 games!), is not what the future is. That's a very low bar. Bringing back Megaman in any way, shape or form, with price tag attached, is one of the biggest challenges in game design period.
Will I rush for those games? No. I have already played both. Besides, there's more things in life than just Megaman. That said, I would ask erka:es for another game. Mostly to prove me wrong and continue the steps in the right direction. Because maybe RKS could become what you claim it to be if erka:es attempts it.

Opinions are opinions. I don't doubt RkS stands above a lot of doujins. I will believe you in the field of doujins. I don't detract from the games as games. But the RkS games are officially coming overseas now, and that requires a bigger picture.
And finally, please don't make these quick, borderline belittling assumptions. I've explained myself, so I doubt it'll happen again, but still.
No, no. I understand. Hold on, you buy dojins? I just go to doujin-style or gravity like the vast majority. I bought these games though, because I really like them. And a lot of dojins are free. I do limit myself, because I like what I like.

Is the Wily machine so bad? It was an homage, so I expected it. I still feel these are reboots in my mind, something completely new and different in style, but very familiar. You won't be able to drag me out of that style of thinking. WOMI created his own world, and he added in elements from other classic games to add nostalgia to what is a brand new story and plot line. It's fresh, but familiar. Which is what I want out of any reboot.

Also, you need to understand what I mean by reboot. This is a dojin style reboot in an alternate universe. It will exist alongside the MM universe, albeit in the sort of indie circle that these games possess. I don't feel it'll ever be mainstream, but it will definitely have it's own world and already does with it's fanbases. Hopefully, we'll get some more games because the story is not over yet. There is a lot of potential here, and I think WOMI is gauging this to see how much interest and sales these will pick up, before making another.

RKS is not the commercial future of Mega Man, but it feels like a better reimagining than MN9 ever did. So it rebooted the franchise in an independent sort of way, like a fan-reboot. Not a commercial reboot. In other words, RKS is MY idea of a reboot. I in no way would suggest that the games were going to replace Mega Man. They aren't even made by Capcom. But I will say that they fit the mold more than anything else I've played in the style to date. Especially Metalgal. There is some sort of Android Hunter X game in dev though, but it looks to independently reboot the X series obviously, not original MM.

I always like a series that doesn't mind giving a nod to other titles. RKS is perfect mix of Gothic Castlevania and Mega Man with slight elements of X. I honestly do not see where you find an identity crisis. The themes in these games were pretty well realized to me. All the locales and music fit the image. It was a near perfect mixture that just needed a hidden whip item somewhere, to give it that ultimate Castlevania nod. Keep in mind, my two favorite game franchises of all-time are Mega Man and Castlevania respectively, so I was elated with this. It worked for me. The only real difference is Schwer's Mario levels and some of the game over screens, which are intentional. I noticed nothing else strange about the game. When you have the English storyline, it makes more sense as far as where you are and why things look the way they do.

Notencore: What is memeing? Perhaps you are a younger fellow more savvy to the Internet? I've heard of memes, but have never heard of memeing before. I was born in the mid-eighties, a lot of these terms are still new to me. If you don't like the games kid, that's fine. But they definitely touched me. I never thought anyone would mix two completely different franchises together so flawlessly. Even if the game is tougher than I remember. :/
For starters, I didn't expect the machine. Especially not in the first game where the first castle ended with what was pretty much Dracula. And again, the user of the machine is absurdly powerful on her own. No need for a machine. Now for the first game, I will admit I don't directly recognize the fighting styles of the machine. But the second game, not so much. First phase is MM4's machine and the second is MM6's. It's still an example of things that are a bit too familiar and not for a very good reason either.

As for MN9, I have to say that while it did fail (and ended up being a more flawed game), it was a better attempt. Things went wrong with that game somewhere down the developmental line. There was a setting that was coherent (though again, FAR from perfect). With RkS the mistakes seem to be on a more conceptual level for the purpose I described. Not to the point of an identity crisis with its referenced games, but reimagining Megaman needs the "Megaman" part to be visible and the rest to be backstage. Oh look, there's Cheep Cheeps, to give one example. What reimagining would be if WOMI found common ground between the games he wanted to pay tribute to, and stay in that common ground. That's aesthetically. And the fantranslation at least doesn't let things make sense. Maybe the official english story actually will do wonders, who knows?

Gameplaywise, maybe not follow the "source material" so ridiculously closely. Spiritia playing 100% like 4-6 Megaman did not help the original game, and that's where I say "forget that price tag". The playable characters were more unique in Freudenstachel, and that helps. Anyway, that'd be for the purpose of actually succeeding the franchise or one of its series.

Because that's where this discussion started. You at one point called RkS a "true successor", but for the purpose of succeeding I can't say RkS does a very good job at all. Nor do I think that was the intention.
You did just say though that no, RkS is not the (commercial) future, so that helps. Good to know we're talking about different things here.
In my opinion Nezumiman is the true succ essor to the moga men fanchise :^)
^ That's a joke, right? You're busting my balls with that one. Nezumiman. Now look who's trolling.

I'm just going to say one thing. The game just released and already received 37/39 positive reviews on Steam. It stands at 4/5 stars and recieved an 8/10. So your negative views of this game fall into the minority, with most people praising it, buying it and recommending it. Some of the reviews even seem to quote my own, "A palette cleanser for MN9." Yes, it very much is. Seems the majority rules in this situation.

See here:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/564150/

I rest my case.
Before I leave this thread, a few more things to point out:

(06-02-2017 09:47 PM)notencore Wrote: [ -> ]Is this game worth a play? Yes definitely.
Is it amazing? Not quite.
Is it worth 10$? Not really.
I'd rather see it at a 5$ price point but at that point I really wonder if I'm even supporting the developer.

notencore said "worth a play" and "I'd rather see it at a 5$ price point". I was with the guy, for I argued the original price was too steep and the original game's way of things made an actual price tag out of the question. The only other thing I argued was that it wasn't going to succeed Megaman with what the games have offered so far. Which was born from what you would later explain was more of a personal opinion kinda thing.

None of this is outright negativity. My perspective was a balanced one. And those buts had to be pointed out given how spotless your praise was. I'm not going to argue that further since I've said everything that I wanted to be said. Not to mention, you don't seem like you're going to be convinced or even acknowledge where I'm coming from.

On the note of those reviews. A quick read through those on-release reviews already reveals they tend to be from people who played the game way earlier and highly anticipated that release. On slightly closer inspection, some of them even acknowledge what I have said before (especially where the lack of originality is concerned), with the only significant difference they still recommended both game and price tag. And again, those reviews are just the ones on release. Before you consider your case strongly reinforced, I would suggest waiting for more reviews to pop up, especially those from people that haven't played it yet.

Now for the actual bottom line: No way I'll pay for the orignal, but maybe the sequel. That said, I will hope a third game comes along that actually does go above and beyond. Good games they may be, and sure, "palette cleansers" if you like, but they can only do so much about the current MM starvation.

Good day to you. By all means enjoy.
I disagree on the fact that they "can do nothing about the MM starvation." That's a little harsh. Just because you're not entirely crazy about the games doesn't mean that they won't fill the hole for a while and I do think that people will enjoy them. They're fun, challenging and offer a great deal of stages and bosses in several classic styles. One major thing I don't feel you understand is the aptly used "identity crisis" label or "it doesn't know what it wants to be." For me, that answer is quite clear. It's a mixture of several different ideas, given it's own world in which to play and evolve further. As we play the story, we become engrossed in the characters and their stories. It's no longer just "Fire Man" or "Bomb Man" for instance, it is something a bit deeper. A girl comes out and says, "I won't let you hurt my father" and starts hurling bombs. Perhaps another says that she just wants to play, while others are more serious. One girl is scared to death being locked at the top of a tower. Maybe that doesn't mean much to you, but I like to be able to connect to my bosses. It's what made MM8, X4 and others in so great to me, because I could finally get a personality behind the boss. How they think, how they sound, what they think of my character. That to me as a fiction writer is very cool. But I know that this has nothing to do with gameplay.

Yes, some of the level designs are a bit muddy, some of the enemies look shoddy and maybe not all of the mechanics work as well as they should. But it is an independent doujin and this is very normal for that genre of gaming. It wasn't perfect, but it was fun. As I said, it formed a fan base of sorts that extended outside of Japan, which is tough to do with most doujin titles, especially doujin that resemble another popular series. That's not because of the level design, the mechanics or the overall gameplay factor - it's because there's real heart in this game. It's a literal labor of love. The characters in the game have become beloved by fans to the point where their storylines take up several pages on the wikia. Trust me, you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about this crap because of the fanbase. Yes, it is obvious I'm one of them, and fanbases can be terrible in the case of Undertale, for instance. But while I do believe that this is a good independent reboot of the game style at least, and it has done better than any other IP of this style to date, it still has some issues. Luckily, the extra items that we get do help us with some of these trickier control issues like jump length and platform behavior. Some of the bosses can nearly instakill as well, and Freudia's stage is still a hassle. I remember Iris's first stage bring nearly impossible in the JP version and this game seems even tougher than that one for some reason (was playing the best edition, btw not the 07 first release) so I'm dreading that. Sometimes it is still hard to read the text, because of the color they chose and the background behind it. It still does not offer wide-screen support and feels fuzzy. That could be my machine though.

At any rate, since I am a reviewer, I decided it best to judge it as a whole. RKS is not perfect, but compared to half of the crap in MN9, it is a breath of fresh air. MN9 still sits unfinished because of the spike placement right before the final boss level, the large pink monstrosity that seems almost completely out of place. Then we have Ray mode. It just didn't work for me and I'll have to give proper respect this time to WOMI over (arguable) series creator Inafune. Maybe some ideas were recycled in RKS, but at least RKS took the story and setting to something far removed from what the original game would offer, giving us more of a Mega Man tale in a fantasy world, rather than what almost seems like a cheap attempt at copying the original Mega Man and just changing names, abilities and character models.

With that, I have nothing further and I also bid you good day. Smile
???

>only do so much about mm starvation

>can do nothing about mm starvation

???

how are these equal at all???
To me, that's basically what it states. You can either quell it or you can't. To say it can only do so much is a rather sugary way of saying "it really can't do much of anything." At least in the poster's mind. I just equated it to "can't do anything."
You can't assume what other people think.

I'm pretty sure they meant "yeah, it will fill some people's desires (yours) but not everyone's (theirs)."

Only the sith deal in absolutes.
Well, that's what I said. In his mind, it won't really fill a need. It won't do much of anything. In mine, I feel that it very well could.
Rosenkreuzstilette Freudenstachel is out on Steam and Playism now, in case anybody cares.
Reference URL's