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Megaman Discussion MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Printable Version

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MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Mick Galbani - 05-09-2014 06:26 PM

So, as some of you on the chat are aware, one day I was bored and/or crazy enough to go back and count out about how many rooms, or 'screens' each stage in the various Mega Man fangames actually were as well as the official games, and I found some rather interesting things.

Stages marked with (H) are "Hatch Stages". This is where the Robot Master rematches end up, which usually creates a slight screen count boost. Stages marked with (E) are "Ending Stages". These are stages that usually occur after the rematches, and are often hidden and incredibly short.

As a note, what these counts cover is the primary route through each stage, meaning it doesn't (usually) tackle optional detours, but any backtracking through screens you've already been over is accounted for.

Official Games


Official screen averages in the 8-bit NES style (For reference)

Robot Master Stages = 25 screens
Fortress Stages (With Hatch and Ending Stages) = 19 screens
Fortress Stages (Without Hatch and Ending Stages) = 21 screens

Fan Games

[/b]
This information forms a useful comparison that you can use. Generally speaking I've found that a LOT of fangames goof up with this thing, even on things like having the fortresses shorter on average, with a few surprising exceptions. Why? I have no idea, but maybe you have your own conclusions you can draw from this.

That being said, don't take this as an end-all be-all thing either. You can have screen counts within the general average, but have stages that are longer than the average MM level, and vice-versa. There is far more to level length than the screen counts, they're just the technical end of things.


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - CosmicGem - 29-02-2016 01:12 PM

This is neat, I couldn't even comprehend some of those numbers because I've played through the majority of them, so it was pretty shocking to me that the stages were that freakishly long/short. Thanks for sharing your research with us!


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - The Stove Guy - 29-02-2016 10:21 PM

Mega Man Super Fighting Robot

LeafMan = 34
ZapMan = 44
DaggerMan = 33
CoalMan = 36
SoakMan = 35
TrashMan = 29
AxeMan = 34
WizardMan = 36

MM:SFR RM Average = 35

Wily1 = 29
Wily2 = 40
Wily3 = 34
Wily4 = 41
Wily5 = 19
Wily6 = 5

MM:SFR Fortress Average = 28



??? = 34


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - Scorpio - 01-03-2016 04:26 AM

...well damn.

And here I thought 23 screens was long. If I'd seen this earlier I'd have made my MAGMML level longer.

Good researching anyways, this should be useful for budding fangame makers.


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - CosmicGem - 02-03-2016 02:23 AM

(01-03-2016 04:26 AM)Scorpio Wrote:  This should be useful for budding fangame makers.

Indeed, this has actually helped me a ton with my fangame. Kudos to Mick for taking the time to put this together.


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - Mick Galbani - 02-03-2016 06:19 PM

Regarding the SFR Screen Counts... I will have to confirm for myself whether or not those are accurate.

Also, since it was requested, I have begun work on screen counting the official MM games, I'm actually almost done at this point, but I still have a few more to count through outside of NES-Style games before I can post them.


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - The Stove Guy - 03-03-2016 01:34 PM

Mega Man Dr. Wily's final attack

Intro Stage = 19

DigitalMan = 31
SpeedWoman = 31
EarthMan = 39
SpearMan = 27
CoppiceMan = 40
WeatherMan = 37
SoundMan = 26
GlacierMan = 38

MM:DWFA RM average = 34

BryanMan = 45

Wily1 = 36
Wily2 = 30
Wily3 = 26
Wily4 = 12
Wily5 = 4
Wily6 = 10

MM:DWFA Fortress average = 20


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - Smedis2 - 03-03-2016 02:24 PM

Very nice. Certainly helps a fangamer put stage length into persepctive, although I persobally believe that it doesn't entirely matter if a stage is (physically) long put goes by really fast or is fun and fair.

(05-09-2014 06:26 PM)Blackmore Darkwing Wrote:  SuperDanny2 has longer

Sweet Christ. The mere thought of that makes me shudder in fear. I've never actually beaten SuperDanny2 but I hear it's either average or not that great. If I'm not mistaken, aren't there a massive buttload of fortress stages in that too?


RE: Fangame Screen Counts - Blyka - 03-03-2016 05:36 PM

(05-09-2014 06:26 PM)Blackmore Darkwing Wrote:  SuperDanny2 has longer

(03-03-2016 02:24 PM)Smedis2 Wrote:  Sweet Christ. The mere thought of that makes me shudder in fear.

Definitely an interesting thread subject, and since it's been brought up I figured I'd contribute SuperDanny 2's stats (plus it's easier for me having access to the level maps XD). These numbers include boss rooms/entryways but don't include the odd secret room or optional path.

Snake Man = 32
Shadow Man = 26
Skull Man = 24
Pharaoh Man = 30
Gyro Man = 30
Crystal Man = 27
Flame Man = 25
Knight Man = 28

Opening Stage = 18
Enker = 18
Quint = 20
Punk = 18
Ballade = 20

Wily 1 = 30
Wily 2 = 27
Wily 3 = 30
Wily 4 = 9
Wily 5 = 17 (boss rematch + wily, so actual level traversing would be 8)
Wily 6 = 5 (straight drop to Wily)

RM Average = 28
Misc Average = 19
Wily Average = 20


And then of course the optional secret bonus level Blackmore Darkwing must have been referring to, which is 84 screens.

So yeah, SD2 turns up fairly average; I was quite mindful of that when developing. :)

I feel it should also be noted that the first three Wily levels, while large numbers for fortress stages, have two Doc Robot matches in addition to the standard level boss. Might be considered more difficult, but as far as level length is concerned there are checkpoints before and after every boss, making the level itself more manageable.

Likewise with the 84 screen bonus level; it contains 4 bosses each with a checkpoint before and after (and one extra checkpoint besides) so unless you Game Over it's more like 4 distinct levels in a row. And it was totally meant to incorporate every single enemy and obstacles I made for the game and give the player a super challenge, hence its hidden/optional status. ;)

(03-03-2016 02:24 PM)Smedis2 Wrote:  I've never actually beaten SuperDanny2 but I hear it's either average or not that great.

Naturally I'd be biased to offer an opinion, but from player feedback I think it's very much a YMMV game. Some totally dig it and others totally don't. I think it's all what you're looking for.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Mick Galbani - 03-03-2016 11:32 PM

Oh ho ho! That's interesting, thanks Blyka. And yes, the Secret Bonus Stage was what I was referring to by having longer, and having seen the same guy play both levels, I can confirm that the SD2 level is most assuredly longer than anything MME throws at you.

Also, I'm including boss hallways in all of these counts, so you're fine there. Definitely adding that to the main post.

Though, that's not the only thing I'm going to be adding. I've got a few other fangame counts lying around that I could add to the topic, but more importantly, I have the official games counted now, so now people can compare the information more... directly, without having to track it all down themselves.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Entity1037 - 04-03-2016 03:46 AM

Quote:This information forms a useful comparison that you can use. Generally speaking I've found I've found that a LOT of fangames goof up with this thing, even on things like having the fortresses shorter on average, with a few surprising exceptions. Why? I have no idea, but maybe you have your own conclusions you can draw from this.

You said "I've found" twice in a row.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Mick Galbani - 04-03-2016 04:11 AM

(04-03-2016 03:46 AM)Entity1037 Wrote:  
Quote:This information forms a useful comparison that you can use. Generally speaking I've found I've found that a LOT of fangames goof up with this thing, even on things like having the fortresses shorter on average, with a few surprising exceptions. Why? I have no idea, but maybe you have your own conclusions you can draw from this.

You said "I've found" twice in a row.

...This is a friendly reminder to proofread edits before making them. >_> Originally I had another sentence there, but I rewrote it to fit with the new written set-up, and added an extra "I've found" by accident. >_>

Anyway, fixed now. Thanks.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Blyka - 04-03-2016 05:22 AM

(03-03-2016 11:32 PM)Blackmore Darkwing Wrote:  Oh ho ho! That's interesting, thanks Blyka. And yes, the Secret Bonus Stage was what I was referring to by having longer, and having seen the same guy play both levels, I can confirm that the SD2 level is most assuredly longer than anything MME throws at you.

You're welcome, glad to contribute to this data! I'm right there with others that this would be most useful for budding fangame developers, not only as a convenient reference but even to bring it to their attention; I know I didn't consider accurate length in my earliest works and those levels were horrifically endless. I wonder if that's the case with a lot of fangames.

And that's kinda neat that SD2's Dark Man stage might currently hold the record for longest, seeing as "epic" was the theme I was going for with that game. Though anyone who suffers at its hands can take comfort in the fact that it was probably a lot more hellish to create than it is to play. XD


Also.
(04-03-2016 04:11 AM)Blackmore Darkwing Wrote:  Originally I had another sentence there, but I rewrote it to fit with the new written set-up, and added an extra "I've found" by accident. >_>
Been there. >_<


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Heihachi_73 - 04-03-2016 05:00 PM

What about the DOS games? They're technically fan games of their time, albeit bloody awful in terms of gameplay! Smile


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Mick Galbani - 04-03-2016 05:27 PM

(04-03-2016 05:00 PM)Heihachi_73 Wrote:  What about the DOS games? They're technically fan games of their time, albeit bloody awful in terms of gameplay! Smile

Those do not follow screen rules even remotely. Mega Man 8 breaks them on a number of occasions, but it follows them often enough to still be reliable. DOS... not even close. In other words, I actually can't screen count them.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Scorpio - 05-03-2016 04:48 AM

On the subject of MM8, I think the majority of screens for Frost Man and Wily 1 are taken up by the snowboarding segments, so maybe you could do another count like you did with Wave Man and the Wave Bike?


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Mick Galbani - 05-03-2016 04:57 AM

Definitely a thought to consider, however, in the case of Wave Man, the reason for the different count was because of NES shenanigans, the recounted number is the technical count, whereas the actual count is far higher. Frost Man and MM8 Wily 1, from what I can tell, aren't that long because of technical wizardry, so I'm a bit more hesitant about recounting them.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - SnoruntPyro - 11-04-2016 03:15 AM

Oh wow I just noticed this thread because it was linked in the MMEndless thread. This is super interesting! Here's SRON1's counts if you're curious. The counts count the normal path you would take through the level, no secret paths or anything.

Doodlebob - 34
Thomas - 34*
Milk - 27
Plant Man - 29
Hello - 30
Illuminati - 32
Angry Sun - 31
Toss Tortoise - 37

RM Average = 31.75

Doc Doodlebob - 32
Doc Thomas - 34
Doc Milk - 37
Doc Plant Man - 36

Doc Robot Average = 34.75

Wily 1 - 32
Wily 2 - 25
Wily 3 - 29
Wily 4 - 25*
Wily 5 - 45 (H)

Wily Average = 31.2

Special Stage - 64

* Thomas and Wily 4's train rides are all 1 screen on a timer. Tongue

-----------------------

ALSO here's the screen counts for the MaGMML levels, in a random order and unmarked. I'll mark them once the results are out.

25
25
24
24
25
21
30
40
57
23
34
37
15
12
8
31
44
29
47
17

MaGMML Average: 28.4

For levels with alternate paths, I took the top path.


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - Entity1037 - 08-06-2016 09:12 PM

Could you mark the screen counts of Make a Good Mega Man Level (The Game)? It ought to be quite interesting!


RE: MM Stage Screen Counts (Official+Fangames) - SnoruntPyro - 09-01-2017 07:16 PM

I forgot to ever give the counts for MaGMML.

Objective: Vain Space - 12
City War - 17
Level - 15
The Quickening - 8
Chroma Key - 24
Midnight Snow - 40 (normal path), 44 (Total)
Sunset Siege - 23 (normal path), 26 (Total)
Sky Ziggurat - 25 (top path), 25 (bottom path), 33 (Total)
Wily Combo - 21
Napalm Forest and Caves - 44 (Top/Top), 46 (Bottom/Top), 43 (Top/Bottom), 45 (Bottom/Bottom), 73 (Total)
Hard to See Land - 31
Maze of Death - 33
Under Construction - 24
Spiky Meltdown - 29
Thunderclyffe Plant - 37
Research Facility - 29
Citadel Basement - 48
NEON GRAVITY - 25
Mega Man World - 57
Glass Man - 25

Wily 1 (Pyro) - 36
Wily 2 (Cheez) - 42
Wily 3 (Duvi) - 26
Wily 4 (Mick) - 34
Wily 5 (MrKyurem) - 25

Wily 6 (Pyro) - 123