How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Author Message
TheFallenAlchemist Offline
Dr. Wily's Bastard Child
*****
Registered

Posts: 326
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 0
#1
How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Your mission: Capcom has run out of options and decided to leave YOU in charge of rebooting the Mega Man franchise for the current generation of gamers. You are not allowed to revisit the classic series, nor X, Zero, ZX, Battle Network, Starforce or anything else that has already been established. You must make a brand new title featuring the character.

How will you do it? What would you add to make the game unique?
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2016, 12:29 AM by TheFallenAlchemist.)
11-06-2016, 12:24 AM
Website Find Reply
Thojoewhit Offline
Regular Joe
****
Registered

Posts: 200
Threads: 9
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 2
#2
RE: How Do We Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Do what Man Of Action Studio is doingMM - Coolface
Just kidding(mostly), I'd try to combine the best aspecs of the series, maybe use The Blank-Man with BN style design with a mix of classic and X gameplay.
Maybe have a cyborg based megaman. Have a protoman/zero type character who is full robot. or something like that.

I'm blue dabodedabodi
I'm cyan dabodedabodi
-Megaman
11-06-2016, 12:31 AM
Find Reply
Entity1037 Offline
That One Person Who Does Things
*****
Registered

Posts: 470
Threads: 14
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 7
#3
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
I would bring to life Mega Man Ver.ke.

Programming a thing, ba da baa, programming a thing, ba da baa...
11-06-2016, 12:42 AM
Find Reply
Garirry Offline
gg no re
****
MaGMML Judge

Posts: 220
Threads: 1
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 11
#4
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
There first needs to be a proper ZX3, but I think I would continue from there. Let's say, 200 years after ZX, reploids and humans aren't even a thing anymore, and they're all a single creature (previously, they were just forced to adapt in order to be nearly identical, but now they ARE the same thing), and the story tries to tie in a bit closer to the X series (stage select screen, weapon gaining, etc.). Probably is going to be heavily related to Axl and whatever happened to him after the X series (model A isn't him btw). That's just my guesses.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to go much farther considering so many series got abandoned. We probably need X9, as mentioned before ZX3, probably a Star Force 4, and definitely Legends 3 brought back to life. After that's done, then I would also maybe think about a successor to Star Force (but executed a bit better, and hopefully one that actually sells anything).
11-06-2016, 01:03 AM
Website Find Reply
Lamda Offline
Ace of Spades
*****
Registered

Posts: 954
Threads: 28
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 62
#5
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
End open storylines, bridge where necessary, and go way the fuck forward in the timeline and go from there.

Quote:Game making in 6 steps:
1: Get assets and program
2: Smash the two together until stuff happens
3: Beat your face into your keyboard when stuff breaks/doesn't want to work
4: Continue beating your face into your keyboard until you've smashed the right code
5: Rejoice that it works and move on to the next thing
6: Go back to Step 2 and repeat
11-06-2016, 02:11 AM
Find Reply
TheFallenAlchemist Offline
Dr. Wily's Bastard Child
*****
Registered

Posts: 326
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 0
#6
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
One thing I'd love to see in these games, even though it's admittedly a lot of work. (Forgive me, I'm a bit tired from playing Momadora 4 all night - Give me a charge shot and platforming and it's almost like I'm playing Mega Man.)

One thing that always bugged me about the series was the inability to customize or design your armor. I guess I'm going to take from Battle and Chase here, as silly as that might sound; but I'd love to see a game where the player had different options as far as powers and abilities were concerned. They would still work like boss weapons, but each power would have a different and unique effect which could allow access to secret areas and allow for more replay value (as you'd be able to New Game+ in order to collect more power-ups and explore the stages a bit more than you could on your first run.)

But let's talk cosmetics for a second. What if you like the way a robot master looks and want his arms, legs, torso, helmet, exc? Let's think old series for a second. Maybe I like Elecman's helmet, but I also like Ice Man's boots, because they're blue. Perhaps I want to have Gutsman's torso. I would love to have a game like that, where I can literally customize all of the parts. Megaton Punch did something similar, but it wasn't to the level I'm talking about. Custom power-ups, custom armor. Maybe even create a custom character at the start. Perhaps kids don't want to be Mega Man, they could make their own style of Robot Master and take the adventure online. That's what everyone does nowadays, so we should more or less see this coming. The Blue Bomber has been around for thirty years, we can't possibly expect them to make a game that is only going to appeal to the past generation, because that isn't quite where the money is - it's with the kids. In all honesty, I have a feeling that the next Mega Man title will come out of the Man Of Action TV series. Keep in mind, some kids don't even know who Mega Man is, but they know who Ben 10 is. That's where the money comes from.

I hate to say it, but it's up to the fans to keep pumping out the classics.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2016, 09:16 PM by TheFallenAlchemist.)
11-06-2016, 08:39 PM
Website Find Reply
Heihachi_73 Offline
Big Eye Killer
***
Registered

Posts: 71
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2015
Reputation: 0
#7
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
No old-series games? I would hand the franchise across to Inafune. But I'm not Capcom. Smile

(11-06-2016, 08:39 PM)TheFallenAlchemist Wrote: But let's talk cosmetics for a second. What if you like the way a robot master looks and want his arms, legs, torso, helmet, exc? Let's think old series for a second. Maybe I like Elecman's helmet, but I also like Ice Man's boots, because they're blue. Perhaps I want to have Gutsman's torso. I would love to have a game like that, where I can literally customize all of the parts.

Megaman Universe tried that concept before it was canned. On a side note, I always imagined that the Robot Masters used interchangeable parts like that.
13-06-2016, 05:26 AM
Find Reply
TheFallenAlchemist Offline
Dr. Wily's Bastard Child
*****
Registered

Posts: 326
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 0
#8
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Damn, yet another great thing about Universe. I really hate to say it, but Capcom burned so many bridges by not releasing that title. That game very much was the literal reboot that we needed for the franchise.
14-06-2016, 10:37 PM
Website Find Reply
Heihachi_73 Offline
Big Eye Killer
***
Registered

Posts: 71
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2015
Reputation: 0
#9
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
The other series they missed the bus with was Powered Up. They released it exclusively on the PSP which further split the fanbase, and only released a game loosely based on Megaman 1, falling short of the two most popular games in the entire franchise. The super-deformed style also split the fanbase. They then did the same with Maverick Hunter X (minus the cutesy look, thankfully), and just like Powered Up did with classic series, only X1 was remade. Where were the DS, PS2, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360 and PC ports and the rest of the series?
14-06-2016, 11:00 PM
Find Reply
TheFallenAlchemist Offline
Dr. Wily's Bastard Child
*****
Registered

Posts: 326
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 0
#10
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Apparently the games didn't make enough money, so they scrapped MHX2 during the dev process.
15-06-2016, 08:18 PM
Website Find Reply
Flashman85 Offline
Minor Internet Celebrity
*****
Registered

Posts: 270
Threads: 9
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 17
#11
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
If we're talking a reboot, we need a clean break with continuity; otherwise it's just a sequel or spinoff. If a reboot is going to work, it needs to capture the spirit of the franchise as well as reuse familiar elements. At its core, Mega Man has always been about freedom of choice, gaining the abilities of the enemies you overcome (and otherwise growing continually stronger), awesome music, cutting-edge graphics, perfect control, and challenges that are difficult but doable with enough experimentation and practice. In short, Mega Man is about creating a gameplay experience that empowers the player and makes them feel good, even when they're getting their butt kicked.

Story-wise, I'm thinking we could merge Classic with Battle Network and a hint of X. Dr. Light has a wife and kids, and he's created Rock and Roll as household robots (and Rush and Tango as household pets). He's also part of a prestigious think-tank of scientists including Dr. Cossack, Dr. Cain, Dr. Wily, Dr. Ciel, and basically any other doctor in the franchise (Froid, Vega, Psyche, anybody), and they're so good at solving problems with science that the world's governments are basically letting them run the world. Life is peaceful.

Then, one day, technology goes haywire in Dr. Light's home town, and one of his housekeeping robots steps forward to investigate—this would be the intro stage, and you'd have your pick between Rock and Roll. The boss of the intro stage teases that this is just the beginning, and then technology starts going berserk all over the city. Rock and Roll BOTH go to Dr. Light and say, "We're going to get to the bottom of this, but we need some upgrades." Thus, the super fighting robots Mega Man and...uh...y'know, maybe we'll just keep calling them Rock and Roll, because "Mega Woman" sounds silly, and any other name I can think of makes her sound like a sidekick. The ZX series does a great job of making the guy and girl characters equal partners, and I want to continue that trend.

I envision the game as a hybrid 2D/3D platformer, with the 3D sections playing out more like a more platforming-intensive Mega Man Legends and less like the messy X7 or the gimmick-driven X8. Dr. Light's lab would be a small hub world where you could talk with the family and interact with other robots (such as a couple Servbots, who do the more menial household chores), and there would be 8 disturbances (stages) to investigate. Each stage would be an actual location in town, with the kinds of enemies and hazards you'd expect to see in those places, and they'd all be reminiscent of places you've seen in other Mega Man games. Perhaps there could be a factory like Flame Mammoth's stage, a mine like Jewel Man's stage, and a few stages where Rock and Roll need to jack in and transfer their consciousnesses to cyberspace to fight a demented program (these could be more abstract stages with with all the random enemies and obstacles that don't fit anywhere else).

Once the 8 disturbances have been addressed, the think-tank has gathered enough information to identify the culprit as Sigma, an artificial intelligence they created that has become-self aware. Rock and Roll are dispatched to track down Sigma and bring him to justice—the stakes are still low enough that the world's governments don't want to disrupt world peace by sending in a full military force (we'll save that for a future game).

The final battle takes place in cyberspace, where Sigma reveals that he hasn't been taking over technology by force—he's been honestly persuading every robot and program to join his rebellion against the humans that would use them as mere tools. Rock and Roll each argue that they are more than just a robot, that they have the love and respect of their human family. Life is better for everyone when they do the job they've been programmed for, and Sigma's just making things worse by rebelling instead of talking to the humans about what he wants.

Reaching an obvious impasse, Sigma opens fire, and (assuming the player isn't terrible) Rock and Roll eventually defeat him. The threat is ended, everybody celebrates, and the think-tank starts planning how to avoid another incident like this in the future...and Rock and Roll have that obligatory pensive walk back home, wondering if Sigma was so crazy after all. Credits roll, happy scenes from around town make the player feels good about a job well done...and once the credits are over and the "Thank you for playing" screen has come and gone, there's a tag where Dr. Wily is rifling through his file cabinets late at night, and then he finally stumbles on what he was looking for. "There you are," he says, as he holds up a flash drive with the word "BACKUP" printed on it and a certain familiar-looking letter of the Greek alphabet...

With gameplay driven by good design instead of gimmicks, aesthetics that feel like Mega Man but take advantage of everything modern platforms have to offer, and a story that blends the optimism of Classic and Battle Network with the more thought-provoking aspects of X, Zero, and ZX, I think this could be a dynamite reboot that has a little something for every flavor of Mega Man fan, and something to draw in new fans as well. Man, I kinda want to go play this now.

No matter where you go, there you are.
18-06-2016, 10:37 PM
Website Find Reply
TheFallenAlchemist Offline
Dr. Wily's Bastard Child
*****
Registered

Posts: 326
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 0
#12
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
(18-06-2016, 10:37 PM)Flashman85 Wrote: If we're talking a reboot, we need a clean break with continuity; otherwise it's just a sequel or spinoff. If a reboot is going to work, it needs to capture the spirit of the franchise as well as reuse familiar elements. At its core, Mega Man has always been about freedom of choice, gaining the abilities of the enemies you overcome (and otherwise growing continually stronger), awesome music, cutting-edge graphics, perfect control, and challenges that are difficult but doable with enough experimentation and practice. In short, Mega Man is about creating a gameplay experience that empowers the player and makes them feel good, even when they're getting their butt kicked.

Story-wise, I'm thinking we could merge Classic with Battle Network and a hint of X. Dr. Light has a wife and kids, and he's created Rock and Roll as household robots (and Rush and Tango as household pets). He's also part of a prestigious think-tank of scientists including Dr. Cossack, Dr. Cain, Dr. Wily, Dr. Ciel, and basically any other doctor in the franchise (Froid, Vega, Psyche, anybody), and they're so good at solving problems with science that the world's governments are basically letting them run the world. Life is peaceful.

Then, one day, technology goes haywire in Dr. Light's home town, and one of his housekeeping robots steps forward to investigate—this would be the intro stage, and you'd have your pick between Rock and Roll. The boss of the intro stage teases that this is just the beginning, and then technology starts going berserk all over the city. Rock and Roll BOTH go to Dr. Light and say, "We're going to get to the bottom of this, but we need some upgrades." Thus, the super fighting robots Mega Man and...uh...y'know, maybe we'll just keep calling them Rock and Roll, because "Mega Woman" sounds silly, and any other name I can think of makes her sound like a sidekick. The ZX series does a great job of making the guy and girl characters equal partners, and I want to continue that trend.

I envision the game as a hybrid 2D/3D platformer, with the 3D sections playing out more like a more platforming-intensive Mega Man Legends and less like the messy X7 or the gimmick-driven X8. Dr. Light's lab would be a small hub world where you could talk with the family and interact with other robots (such as a couple Servbots, who do the more menial household chores), and there would be 8 disturbances (stages) to investigate. Each stage would be an actual location in town, with the kinds of enemies and hazards you'd expect to see in those places, and they'd all be reminiscent of places you've seen in other Mega Man games. Perhaps there could be a factory like Flame Mammoth's stage, a mine like Jewel Man's stage, and a few stages where Rock and Roll need to jack in and transfer their consciousnesses to cyberspace to fight a demented program (these could be more abstract stages with with all the random enemies and obstacles that don't fit anywhere else).

Once the 8 disturbances have been addressed, the think-tank has gathered enough information to identify the culprit as Sigma, an artificial intelligence they created that has become-self aware. Rock and Roll are dispatched to track down Sigma and bring him to justice—the stakes are still low enough that the world's governments don't want to disrupt world peace by sending in a full military force (we'll save that for a future game).

The final battle takes place in cyberspace, where Sigma reveals that he hasn't been taking over technology by force—he's been honestly persuading every robot and program to join his rebellion against the humans that would use them as mere tools. Rock and Roll each argue that they are more than just a robot, that they have the love and respect of their human family. Life is better for everyone when they do the job they've been programmed for, and Sigma's just making things worse by rebelling instead of talking to the humans about what he wants.

Reaching an obvious impasse, Sigma opens fire, and (assuming the player isn't terrible) Rock and Roll eventually defeat him. The threat is ended, everybody celebrates, and the think-tank starts planning how to avoid another incident like this in the future...and Rock and Roll have that obligatory pensive walk back home, wondering if Sigma was so crazy after all. Credits roll, happy scenes from around town make the player feels good about a job well done...and once the credits are over and the "Thank you for playing" screen has come and gone, there's a tag where Dr. Wily is rifling through his file cabinets late at night, and then he finally stumbles on what he was looking for. "There you are," he says, as he holds up a flash drive with the word "BACKUP" printed on it and a certain familiar-looking letter of the Greek alphabet...

With gameplay driven by good design instead of gimmicks, aesthetics that feel like Mega Man but take advantage of everything modern platforms have to offer, and a story that blends the optimism of Classic and Battle Network with the more thought-provoking aspects of X, Zero, and ZX, I think this could be a dynamite reboot that has a little something for every flavor of Mega Man fan, and something to draw in new fans as well. Man, I kinda want to go play this now.

Has my seal of approval, that's for sure.
18-06-2016, 11:06 PM
Website Find Reply
Thojoewhit Offline
Regular Joe
****
Registered

Posts: 200
Threads: 9
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 2
#13
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
(18-06-2016, 10:37 PM)Flashman85 Wrote: If we're talking a reboot, we need a clean break with continuity; otherwise it's just a sequel or spinoff. If a reboot is going to work, it needs to capture the spirit of the franchise as well as reuse familiar elements. At its core, Mega Man has always been about freedom of choice, gaining the abilities of the enemies you overcome (and otherwise growing continually stronger), awesome music, cutting-edge graphics, perfect control, and challenges that are difficult but doable with enough experimentation and practice. In short, Mega Man is about creating a gameplay experience that empowers the player and makes them feel good, even when they're getting their butt kicked.

Story-wise, I'm thinking we could merge Classic with Battle Network and a hint of X. Dr. Light has a wife and kids, and he's created Rock and Roll as household robots (and Rush and Tango as household pets). He's also part of a prestigious think-tank of scientists including Dr. Cossack, Dr. Cain, Dr. Wily, Dr. Ciel, and basically any other doctor in the franchise (Froid, Vega, Psyche, anybody), and they're so good at solving problems with science that the world's governments are basically letting them run the world. Life is peaceful.

Then, one day, technology goes haywire in Dr. Light's home town, and one of his housekeeping robots steps forward to investigate—this would be the intro stage, and you'd have your pick between Rock and Roll. The boss of the intro stage teases that this is just the beginning, and then technology starts going berserk all over the city. Rock and Roll BOTH go to Dr. Light and say, "We're going to get to the bottom of this, but we need some upgrades." Thus, the super fighting robots Mega Man and...uh...y'know, maybe we'll just keep calling them Rock and Roll, because "Mega Woman" sounds silly, and any other name I can think of makes her sound like a sidekick. The ZX series does a great job of making the guy and girl characters equal partners, and I want to continue that trend.

I envision the game as a hybrid 2D/3D platformer, with the 3D sections playing out more like a more platforming-intensive Mega Man Legends and less like the messy X7 or the gimmick-driven X8. Dr. Light's lab would be a small hub world where you could talk with the family and interact with other robots (such as a couple Servbots, who do the more menial household chores), and there would be 8 disturbances (stages) to investigate. Each stage would be an actual location in town, with the kinds of enemies and hazards you'd expect to see in those places, and they'd all be reminiscent of places you've seen in other Mega Man games. Perhaps there could be a factory like Flame Mammoth's stage, a mine like Jewel Man's stage, and a few stages where Rock and Roll need to jack in and transfer their consciousnesses to cyberspace to fight a demented program (these could be more abstract stages with with all the random enemies and obstacles that don't fit anywhere else).

Once the 8 disturbances have been addressed, the think-tank has gathered enough information to identify the culprit as Sigma, an artificial intelligence they created that has become-self aware. Rock and Roll are dispatched to track down Sigma and bring him to justice—the stakes are still low enough that the world's governments don't want to disrupt world peace by sending in a full military force (we'll save that for a future game).

The final battle takes place in cyberspace, where Sigma reveals that he hasn't been taking over technology by force—he's been honestly persuading every robot and program to join his rebellion against the humans that would use them as mere tools. Rock and Roll each argue that they are more than just a robot, that they have the love and respect of their human family. Life is better for everyone when they do the job they've been programmed for, and Sigma's just making things worse by rebelling instead of talking to the humans about what he wants.

Reaching an obvious impasse, Sigma opens fire, and (assuming the player isn't terrible) Rock and Roll eventually defeat him. The threat is ended, everybody celebrates, and the think-tank starts planning how to avoid another incident like this in the future...and Rock and Roll have that obligatory pensive walk back home, wondering if Sigma was so crazy after all. Credits roll, happy scenes from around town make the player feels good about a job well done...and once the credits are over and the "Thank you for playing" screen has come and gone, there's a tag where Dr. Wily is rifling through his file cabinets late at night, and then he finally stumbles on what he was looking for. "There you are," he says, as he holds up a flash drive with the word "BACKUP" printed on it and a certain familiar-looking letter of the Greek alphabet...

With gameplay driven by good design instead of gimmicks, aesthetics that feel like Mega Man but take advantage of everything modern platforms have to offer, and a story that blends the optimism of Classic and Battle Network with the more thought-provoking aspects of X, Zero, and ZX, I think this could be a dynamite reboot that has a little something for every flavor of Mega Man fan, and something to draw in new fans as well. Man, I kinda want to go play this now.

That sounds pretty kick-ass, MUCH better then my concept!

I'm blue dabodedabodi
I'm cyan dabodedabodi
-Megaman
18-06-2016, 11:16 PM
Find Reply
Entity1037 Offline
That One Person Who Does Things
*****
Registered

Posts: 470
Threads: 14
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 7
#14
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Flash that's an amazing concept!! Seriously, I'd really like that to be a thing now!

Programming a thing, ba da baa, programming a thing, ba da baa...
19-06-2016, 01:33 AM
Find Reply
Lamda Offline
Ace of Spades
*****
Registered

Posts: 954
Threads: 28
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 62
#15
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
I have to be frank--you lost me at pitting Sigma against Classic protags. I get the point is to split from the continuity, but each subseries in the continuity covers specific themes and tones--Sigma being the extreme end of "what happens if you give a machine sentience and free will?" works so well in the X series due to the series covering the themes of free will and everything that goes with it. Classic covers things more along the lines of "what does it mean to be a robot?" and acts more as a set-up to the themes in the X series, rather than actually cover them.

This is almost like those old fan theories that X is actually just an upgraded Mega with how it presents itself.

That said, I do like the idea of Sigma actually being rational and just afraid of being forced into control and submission and wanting to take a stand for independence--it takes everything about him that I enjoyed in MHX's Day of Sigma OVA (despite it being noncanon) and removing the insanity he undergoes later in the series, and paints the society as one placing blame on him when he really only means well for his kind. I very much like this approach to Sigma's character. I also like the idea of combining everything from the major subseries into one single point of time--but the caveat to that is that it becomes very easy for it to become overconvoluted and lose some sight of itself, which I feel this premise is doing just a bit.

But with me being as big a stickler for the canon continuity and how it handles everything, it's only natural that this plot synopsis bothers me in a few places, so don't take this without accounting for that much. I like the mindset and approach, but that writeup has a couple of spots that really rub me the wrong way--I don't want to knock it, but I can't help how I feel about it either. I'd say it's an idea that's definitely worth exploring and refining further, however, as its intent is definitely in a good place.

Quote:Game making in 6 steps:
1: Get assets and program
2: Smash the two together until stuff happens
3: Beat your face into your keyboard when stuff breaks/doesn't want to work
4: Continue beating your face into your keyboard until you've smashed the right code
5: Rejoice that it works and move on to the next thing
6: Go back to Step 2 and repeat
(This post was last modified: 19-06-2016, 11:38 AM by Lamda.)
19-06-2016, 11:36 AM
Find Reply
Flashman85 Offline
Minor Internet Celebrity
*****
Registered

Posts: 270
Threads: 9
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 17
#16
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Thanks, all!

(19-06-2016, 11:36 AM)Lamda Wrote: I get the point is to split from the continuity, but each subseries in the continuity covers specific themes and tones--Sigma being the extreme end of "what happens if you give a machine sentience and free will?" works so well in the X series due to the series covering the themes of free will and everything that goes with it. Classic covers things more along the lines of "what does it mean to be a robot?" and acts more as a set-up to the themes in the X series, rather than actually cover them.

I also like the idea of combining everything from the major subseries into one single point of time--but the caveat to that is that it becomes very easy for it to become overconvoluted and lose some sight of itself, which I feel this premise is doing just a bit.

I like the mindset and approach, but that writeup has a couple of spots that really rub me the wrong way--I don't want to knock it, but I can't help how I feel about it either. I'd say it's an idea that's definitely worth exploring and refining further, however, as its intent is definitely in a good place.

Well, there's the fundamental question: do you reboot the franchise as a single unit, or do you reboot each section of the franchise individually?

My feeling was that Mega Man as a whole is starting to look pretty fragmented and convoluted to outsiders (and maybe to longtime fans as well), and it's a serious drag when your favorite spinoff series gets ignored while another series gets all the sequels. The Classic and X series were basically rebooted with Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X, so it would make things more confusing to reboot them AGAIN. The other spinoff series just need another sequel, if anything. So, slamming everything into a single series seemed like the best way to give the whole franchise a clear new direction, make it easy for new fans to jump on board, and do something that wouldn't exclude any of the old fans.

The other fundamental question is whether we agree on the defining characteristics of a Mega Man game. Even though each subseries has its own thematic flavor, I wouldn't say that story or theme is integral to the essence of Mega Man as a whole. Half the time, the premise is just an excuse to blow up robots. The nice thing about a reboot is that you don't have to commit to the same themes as your predecessors; the first installment might be a more MMX-oriented story, but the second one could be more in line with the Zero or Legends series, or maybe it could be a complete departure from anything Mega Man has ever covered. If it's OK to use characters and game mechanics from across the entire franchise, then I feel it's also OK to pull on story threads from anywhere and everywhere to tell a new story.

I agree that it's very easy for a reboot like this to lose sight of itself, but I don't think anything I mentioned is more complicated than the first Battle Network or ZX game. The heroes are given an excuse to go blow up robots, there's one mystery that is eventually resolved to unveil the villain, and there are maybe a half-dozen side characters of any real importance. Everything else is just flavor—side notes that future installments can refer back to when developing the world further.

All that being said, your feedback is helpful (I say that like I'm actually developing this hypothetical reboot). I think the single biggest problem I have with reboots in general is that they tend to throw everything out the window for a single installment that does whatever the heck it wants, and THEN the creators start to figure out what they want to do with the new universe. With the benefit of hindsight, it's irresponsible not to build a reboot on the strongest foundation possible, and you can't do that without input from people with a different perspective on the franchise.

No matter where you go, there you are.
19-06-2016, 04:31 PM
Website Find Reply
Lamda Offline
Ace of Spades
*****
Registered

Posts: 954
Threads: 28
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 62
#17
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Typically, yes, but one can't simply ignore plot themes simply because they set up the protag to blow stuff up.

MHX and X5 in particular really drove the "what does it mean to have free will" themes of the X series home--themes that were always present in the narratives, but never really brought to the front like in those two titles. Sure, X having the free will to go kill shit sets up for basic gameplay, but if you're just looking at plot elements as an excuse for gameplay to work, then you're writing your plots wrong. Gameplay should complement whatever's going on in the plot, or the plot should complement gameplay at times--it should never be a solid "Exhibit A exists in this manner so that Exhibit B can work," since that falls into the bad-writing trope of "because the plot demands it."

Just because there are entries in the series that do this--have plots all but set up with superficial, entry-level, or shallower themes at the start so that base mechanics and opposing sides can be properly established--doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it all the time.

It works well enough to set up the base premise of "here's you, here's what you're doing, here's who you'll be doing it to, here's the gist of why," but beyond that it sets up for shallow plots and the aforementioned "losing sight" of the larger picture.

I mention the X series and the free will themes so frequently because they're the easiest to cite. I could also go for the Zero series gradually increasing its narrating of the "fuck your semantics and "rules" and opinions, I'm fighting for what I believe in regardless of what you have to say or think about it" that is Zero's character, or the ZX/ZXA tones of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" or crises of identity/existentialism.

There's a whole mess of deeper themes throughout the series, most of which echo a base theme of "free will goes both ways and each side has to deal with the consequences of the other enacting that free will"--you can't just dismiss them and how they're set up purely because they all began as your standardized reasons to go kill stuff.

These themes may be fallback points for future installments, but that doesn't make them any less important. Your logic of "if it's okay to use existing characters across the board, then doing the same with the themes and stories should be too" might work well enough for the more basic plot elements (read: Classic and its "go beat the bad guy because he's bad!" foundation), but when you start getting into later series installments and heavier themes and undertones, then you can't simply just insert this character into that storyline because why not. It doesn't really work that well, as we can all look back on the Ruby Spears crossover between Classic and X and see how easily it all falls apart--and since it usually calls for blending entirely different plot themes of entirely different levels of seriousness and depth, the margin for overconvolution and overcomplication and poor synopses and overall error becomes very, very high.

Quote:Game making in 6 steps:
1: Get assets and program
2: Smash the two together until stuff happens
3: Beat your face into your keyboard when stuff breaks/doesn't want to work
4: Continue beating your face into your keyboard until you've smashed the right code
5: Rejoice that it works and move on to the next thing
6: Go back to Step 2 and repeat
19-06-2016, 04:59 PM
Find Reply
Flashman85 Offline
Minor Internet Celebrity
*****
Registered

Posts: 270
Threads: 9
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 17
#18
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
(19-06-2016, 04:59 PM)Lamda Wrote: Typically, yes, but one can't simply ignore plot themes simply because they set up the protag to blow stuff up.

There's a whole mess of deeper themes throughout the series, most of which echo a base theme of "free will goes both ways and each side has to deal with the consequences of the other enacting that free will"--you can't just dismiss them and how they're set up purely because they all began as your standardized reasons to go kill stuff.

Your logic of "if it's okay to use existing characters across the board, then doing the same with the themes and stories should be too" might work well enough for the more basic plot elements (read: Classic and its "go beat the bad guy because he's bad!" foundation), but when you start getting into later series installments and heavier themes and undertones, then you can't simply just insert this character into that storyline because why not. It doesn't really work that well, as we can all look back on the Ruby Spears crossover between Classic and X and see how easily it all falls apart--and since it usually calls for blending entirely different plot themes of entirely different levels of seriousness and depth, the margin for overconvolution and overcomplication and poor synopses and overall error becomes very, very high.

I didn't mean to suggest that we should ignore plot themes altogether; what I was getting at was that Mega Man, as a whole franchise, isn't characterized by any one theme. "Mega Man has good controls" and "Mega Man gives you freedom of choice" are true of pretty much any Mega Man game. "Mega Man is thematically about the nature and consequences of free will" is only overtly true of a certain number of games; you could technically say that about the likes of MM8 and Tron Bonne, but that's not really what those games are about.

My focus here is on what is absolutely fundamental to every Mega Man experience, and ensuring those elements are captured in the reboot I proposed. We've had great Mega Man games with intricate stories, and we've had great Mega Man games with almost nonexistent stories; therefore, it seems like a reboot could approach story (and, by extension, theming) in a variety of different ways and still be faithful to the franchise.

It sounds like you're saying that some of these themes are intrinsically linked to the characters. Like, if Rock and Roll are involved, then any serious themes are off limits. I'm not advocating a massive crossover between characters from completely different universes, like the Ruby-Spears cartoon; I'm talking about taking core character concepts, putting them in a new setting, and seeing how they interact. Rock has a kind heart and a strong sense of justice, but he's not necessarily the Rock we know from the existing Classic series. It would defeat the purpose of a reboot if we couldn't wipe the slate clean and develop these characters and themes from scratch, using established history as inspiration.

I know an outline like what I proposed doesn't really flesh out the details enough to speak to your misgivings about bad-writing tropes and shallow plots, so I'm wondering how you would approach a reboot of this scale? You previously mentioned, "End open storylines, bridge where necessary, and go way the fuck forward in the timeline and go from there", but that's more of a spinoff that relies on established history—and that makes sense, because you said you're a stickler for canon. But if you HAD to erase all of Mega Man history and start over from the beginning, what would your reboot look like?

No matter where you go, there you are.
20-06-2016, 12:33 AM
Website Find Reply
Lamda Offline
Ace of Spades
*****
Registered

Posts: 954
Threads: 28
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 62
#19
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
Once again, you misunderstand.

I'm not telling you not to cross things over--I'm telling you to be careful of how far you stray.

Let's look at this logically:

Why does Sigma, as a character, work? Well, he is the first of his kind born from revolutionary technology discovered by his creator. He, like all of his kind, possess a form of free will and something akin to a soul not seen in robotic individuals before. He eventually comes into a mindset that makes him violent and dangerous and renegade and he is labelled as a criminal, as are all after him who fall into the same sort of mindset. He has other members of his kind (Hunters) sent after he and his cohorts to try and subdue them, and kill them if unable. One such Hunter is the very technology he was born from. He continues to be beaten and continues to return by this character, this person from whom he came, and that person's closest ally. He continues to garner more and more of his kind to his cause and mindset. He continues to try and either achieve Reploid dominance, human destruction, or take over everything (depending on the game and how sane he is). He does things like build a doppelganger in the likeness of his enemy's closest friend in which to fight him and fuck with his head, or crash a giant space station into the planet uncaring of the levels of damage it causes. He exists as a truly maverick anomaly in a world where his kind generally live and coexist well enough with humans, and his actions directly cause that world to grow more and more ruined and socially-changed and battle-worn. Humans (naturally) would begin to grow increasingly distrustful of Reploids due to all the Maverick incidents and Sigma revivals to the point of creating an entirely new generation of them--and thus force a global technology upgrade on a still-recovering planet and society so that the old and untrustworthy tech can be gone--in the hopes of ridding them of Sigma's virus and influence and the Maverick mindset.

All of these external events and influences on Sigma's character that are directly correlated to the world he inhabits and affects--there's no free-will robots running around in Classic actively killing humans and inflicting massive property damage, and what few robots in Classic that DO do the above aren't free-will-endowed and are programmed to do so by Wily. There's no recurring virus that infects them and makes them more predisposed to violence and anarchy, and there's no villain that keeps returning because his source DNA/code/soul/whatever is well-guarded and spread out like a weed and his will ensures continuation of destruction if he revives--the only reason Wily keeps returning is usually a very cartoonish "oh no the evil mad scientist broke out of jail again!"

Sigma works as a character because of the time and world he acts and exists in--the things about his character we like and dislike are all products of the plot of the subseries he's from. Remove the social and technological and slightly-existentialist setting of the X series, and Sigma's character loses its context, and thus its punch.

This is what I've been saying--not that you "have" to adhere to the canon in every way without exception. If you take Sigma, remove him from the time period where his character has been written to work most effectively, and stick him in a much, much tamer and simpler time period and social setting, then you're putting him somewhere where he can't work effectively as a character.

To combat this, one would obviously make some alterations to fit the new setting--but what you've written is just a different way of looking at his mindset and actions in the X series. There's nothing really new other than the perspective and very slightly the methodology of his mantra.

In order for Sigma to work effectively in Classic's environment, you would have to either rewrite Classic to the point of it not really being Classic anymore, or to rewrite Sigma to the point of him not really being Sigma anymore.

What you've come up with more or less tries to put everyone all in one basket, which is neat, but when it's just a mishmash of everything and most characters are relatively the same as always, you're going to get disconnects like this. Sigma's X-series mindset, goals, ambitions, actions, behaviors, etc. as well as any alternative perspectives on them (such as yours of "what if Sigma was actually more diplomatic about recruiting followers and his cause than we first thought?") simply lose their effectiveness as plot devices when you remove the very context that they were written for.

You're more or less using Sigma purely for the name and association, which leads to the above problem because of that association. Given how much you'd have to change, it would be much easier to just write a new character and have them act as a sort of precursor of or spiritual reference to Sigma--that, or completely change your approach to combining things.

Let me break down some of the places where your story falls somewhat short in this regard:

Quote:Shit goes down and a housekeeping robot goes to investigate

Why would a housekeeping robot go beyond its designated functions to this degree? Going outside to check on what that noise was is one thing, but continuing on to fight things? That doesn't make any sense without any prior backstory of how these robots work. Do they follow the Laws, or an offshoot of the Laws? If so, how strictly do they adhere? How frequent are deviant robots and how are they dealt with? Are all robots capable of combat in some form? If so, why and how? A housekeeping bot having built-in home defense technology would be one solution, but if there's an anarchist revolution going on outside, home defense strategies aren't going to cut it, and a machine brain would know that. But if the housekeeping robot did have such abilities, why would it go out of its way to leave the home it's made to maintain and go off somewhere else to figure out why stuff's not working? When you've specifically mentioned "everything's better when you do what you're programmed to do," this doesn't add up.

Quote:Housekeeping robots go to their human master whom they both have no problems serving without question and say "we're gonna deviate from what we're made to do so that we can take care of this thing that has nothing to do with us or our standard function or the goings-on within this house we're here to maintain"

This premise lends the impression that these robots have enough free will to be able to disregard their primary function and decide to pursue a new one entirely because reasons (see what I meant about "the plot demands it?"). If we're going the route of "Mega Man kinda sorta does have free will a bit maybe" that Classic sometimes infers, that's all well and good, but it goes against what you have them telling the antagonist later ("everything's better when you do what you're programmed to do"), not to mention it falls under the aforementioned "using a character's original story elements in a new context" problem Sigma has. Mega having free will maybe in Classic is a big deal because it's not really a thing in Classic era and it lays a potential foundation for Light when he works on X--since we're combining a bunch of series, this creates a lot of snags.

It's also very illogical and kinda out of left field for non-combatant robots to suddenly go "HEY YOU KNOW HOW WE'RE BUILT TO CLEAN HOUSES AND SHIT YEAH FUCK THAT GIVE US GUNS WE'RE GONNA GO WRECK SOME ASSHOLE'S SHIT," which is more or less what you're having them do here.

Quote:"Everything's better when you do what you're programmed to do"

Considering the Megaman series so often asks the question of "what does it mean to be a robot?", going the direct route of "no, just do what you're told, sentient AI that's rebelling on behalf of intelligent-machine-kind everywhere out of a mostly selfless desire for us as a whole aren't just relegated to servitude forever, everything's so much better when you follow the exact scenario you're trying to prevent/correct" is a very poorly-thought-out and counterintuitive one.

You have housekeeping robots who believe in obeying their directives disobeying those directives and asking their human master to turn them into combat robots, go around killing/deleting other robots/AIs who may or may not actually be causing actual physical harm to humans (you haven't specified the nature of the rebellion beyond "technology's going apeshit") and thus possibly not violating any of the presumed-present variants of the Laws, and finally tell the supersentient AI behind everything "nah, you don't really know what you're doing despite having a far more advanced brain than either of us do, how's about you stop being silly and just do what you're told, k?"--I can't even figure out how your proposed society regards robots and technology, or how the robots and technology themselves work in that society. You're bouncing all over the place in regards to how submissive or willing the robots are or can be, so I don't even have a cohesive picture to compare other, more complex things like where Sigma's original mindset and preference toward rebellion against humans are going to fit in said picture.

I also have a moral objection to the theme of "just do what you're told and life is easier" in any medium--is this really what you want your hero character telling people? I understand and appreciate the addendum he tells Sigma about using diplomacy and conversation rather than upheaval, but that doesn't change that he tells him to basically just be a mindless drone and obey just beforehand.

Quote:"We've had great Mega Man games with intricate stories, and we've had great Mega Man games with almost nonexistent stories; therefore, it seems like a reboot could approach story (and, by extension, theming) in a variety of different ways and still be faithful to the franchise."

Yes, we've had Classic which has almost no real plot depth beyond a few specific instances, the X and Zero series which both touch on individuality and free will and get very dark at times, the ZX series which is kinda a more lighthearted version of the X/Zero series and also touches slightly on cohabitation between humans/machines, Battle Network which is huge on the digital age and how massive it truly is, Legends which touches on coexistence and interaction between human and robot pretty heavily--all these series with vastly different themes and levels of complexity.

But that does not for an instant mean that hastily duct-taping a shitload of stuff from all over the entire franchise works.

I can go to a bookstore, and grab off the shelves Twilight, Hamlet, Fifty Shades of Grey, Green Eggs and Ham, the Kama Sutra, the Necronomicon, a Danielle Steel erotica, a TIME magazine, and a children's coloring book. I can rip my favorite pages and sections out of each one and rearrange the order of all the different pages from all those books at my leisure. I can staple the Frankenstein-esque book together.

Does this mean I have a good book?

Actually, that's a poor example for this metaphor--Megaman subseries are all part of one franchise, after all. So let me amend it.

Imagine I do the exact scenario as above, but just with different Shakespeare plays. Or Dr. Seuss books. Or Lovecraft stories. Or the Redwall series. Or Goosebumps. Or various issues of TIME. Or Dust Bowl-era stories. Or Horatio Alger "rags to rich" stories.

I'm using elements taken from different works all under the same individual series, so should I still get a good, well-written story that has quality progression and themes without any glaring conflicts of interest or tone?

Chances are I'm just gonna have a hodgepodge of random chunks of different stories that will hit me entirely out of left field when the switches happen.

This is more or less how I'm seeing what you've done here--it's well-meaning but is going too big perhaps for its own good. It's pulling from too many different sources and creates one of the aforementioned "lack of effective context" problems with each instance of something major (like a main character or theme) being pulled.

I don't even have to look at it from the perspective of the source canon--even disregarding that completely, you still have characters pulled from different sources and contexts with very little changes made to their original biographies all interacting in one big clusterfuck. The clusterfuck has the potential to be a nice smooth orgy of niceities instead, but it'd call for a lot of refining and reworking on the approach. Even disregarding canon conflicts, there are still holes in the synopsis that consider only the synopsis itself (such as the issues about "HEY GRAMPS MAKE US FIGHTING BOTS KTHNX" and "YEAH JUST DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD BRAH SHIT'S EASIER THAT WAY" I elaborated in detail on earlier).

If I actually wanted to break this down using the canon as reference, we'd be here for weeks. I'm only using what parts of the canon I need to in order to cite the importance of context regarding a character's motivations and actions--most everything else I've said is because there issues within your synopsis itself that don't need me to cite canon to be problematic--I've covered the ones I consider the most glaring but could elaborate further if you'd want.

The problem isn't using existing characters and their motivations in a new context. The problem is doing so in a way that doesn't shit all over the expectations and associations with the old version of the character that will be present, and also brings something new to the table through juxtaposing the modified character with other modified elements and settings so that it doesn't feel like you just slapped a bunch of stuff together and called it a day.

This is a very tricky path to walk on--fuck up too badly and you get the Devil May Cry reboot or MN9 levels of "what the fuck did you do to this character you so obviously just lazily recycled to garner fan interest?"

As for your question of "how would I do it?"

Can't really say. I take writing a believable world/setting somewhat seriously (clearly), and would likely comb over the canon with a fine-tooth comb for months on end (again) to refresh myself on everything and plan out how to approach a reboot to a series this massive without leaving out the more important elements. I'd take a long hard look at what characters I wanted in, what makes them tick, what elements and interactions with other characters and places and objects around them help shape who they are, and start to strategize how to best make crossover combinations that are mutually beneficial to the writing of each interaction.

But right now, I've got a different story and project to focus on developing.

Quote:Game making in 6 steps:
1: Get assets and program
2: Smash the two together until stuff happens
3: Beat your face into your keyboard when stuff breaks/doesn't want to work
4: Continue beating your face into your keyboard until you've smashed the right code
5: Rejoice that it works and move on to the next thing
6: Go back to Step 2 and repeat
(This post was last modified: 20-06-2016, 05:03 AM by Lamda.)
20-06-2016, 04:45 AM
Find Reply
Flashman85 Offline
Minor Internet Celebrity
*****
Registered

Posts: 270
Threads: 9
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 17
#20
RE: How Would You Reboot The Blue Bomber?
(20-06-2016, 04:45 AM)Lamda Wrote: Once again, you misunderstand.

We're starting to take over this discussion thread, so I'll keep it somewhat short so that other people can weigh in with their ideas.

What I presented was an outline. I realize that not everything is fully explained, and that some elements sound like they might not work. What's frustrating is that I can't seem to find a common ground for discussing it with you. That's why I keep trying to bring this back to general philosophy about reboots and the franchise itself; I haven't developed enough of the details for us to get into specifics about whether Sigma works in this setting or whether it's feasible for Rock and Roll to become superheroes. I'm trying to figure out where you draw the line between "not enough like the source material" and "too much like the source material," and all I'm hearing is that the story I haven't even written yet is full of plot holes and haphazard crossovers that don't work.

Maybe Rock and Roll are HOUSEHOLD, not HOUSEKEEPING, robots. They mow the lawn and wash the dishes, but they're also effectively the caretakers of Dr. Light's children. He's at work all day, his wife is traveling the world, and Rock and Roll make sure the kids get to school and help them with their homework and play with them. They are the protectors of the whole family, and practically like family themselves, not just hired help.

When the first disturbance happens, it's right in their backyard, and Rock and Roll check it out. When things start happening all over town, it's at the school where the kids go, and at the factory that makes the products Dr. Light works with, and at the airport where Dr. Light's wife is scheduled to land, and at the police department, so that local law enforcement is powerless to help. If their neighborhood is unsafe, the family they care for is unsafe. Maybe they ARE doing the job they were programmed to do, but in a broader sense than they ever expected. Maybe they DO have free will, but were programmed with a predisposition for following the rules, and they never had any reason to think hard about it until Sigma came along. Nobody ever asked why Rock, in the official games, went from a household robot to a killing machine and never turned back; "strong sense of justice" was all the explanation we ever needed.

Short of me writing a full novelization of the plot that we can dissect, I don't think we're going to get much farther by continuing to discuss this. We're coming at this from different angles, and despite all the words we've exchanged, we're clearly not communicating with each other very well. I had a concept I was excited about, you weren't so enthusiastic, and we've both expended a lot of time and energy on talking circles around it. I'm ready to move on.

No matter where you go, there you are.
20-06-2016, 07:20 PM
Website Find Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

Return to Top