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Mega Man 2.5D
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DoomManFTW Offline
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Mega Man 2.5D
As you may know, 8 years ago, someone by the name of Peter Sjöstrand made an animation concept of Mega Man 2, but being in this 2D-3D environment, hence the name 2.5D. 5 years later they started making a game based off the whole idea. Was it worth the wait?

Hardly at all. The finished product is mediocre at best, pretty buggy, with a lot of bad design choices, and it makes less use of the whole 2.5D gimmick than the concept trailer itself. The controls are mostly spot on, except for the slide, which is so unresponsive it ruins even boss battles like Star Man's. The weapon set is very unbalanced, being made out of Shadow Blade; Pharaoh Shot; Search Snake; Time Slow; Star Shield which actually works differently - it has 4 stars going around you, which damage enemies in contact constantly and block certain projectiles, draining energy as it's on, and using more if you fire it (problem with this weapon though, is that the stars have their own hitboxes, so certain things can still hurt you through the shield even if they can be destroyed or reflected by it); Laser Trident; Quick Boomerang - which is worse than in the actual game, it has a longer range, but it fires really slow, and you can't even tap the button to shoot fast, so your best choice is to hold the button as you're firing it; and Tornado Blow.
There are also unlockables, like a secret fight if you get the BEAT type letters in the levels. Sadly enough, that bonus fight is the most well designed one of all.
The other unlockables require achievements, and they are not worth it:
Most are playable characters, some of which are not even better than Mega Man and Proto Man (which by the way, don't act different from each other). The rest are stuff like pictures (drawn by some of the people behind the game, and they're also average), a special stage which is full of forced weapon usage and cheap deaths, and last but not least, the charge shot - instead of making it an option or something like in Mega Man Unlimited, it is a damn unlockable. The playable characters require 1 achievement point each, but stuff like the charge shot require 3.


Overall, the game isn't anything worse than Mega Man Eternal, but it isn't anything great either. It's barely worth a try.
06-02-2017 03:42 PM
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Blackmore Darkwing Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
To supply a way to download the game, since the first post doesn't do that.

Game Website

Anyway, Mega Man 2.5D. Basic synopsis: It's a Mega Man game that reuses classic robot masters, and puts them in a fancy lookin' 2.5D environment. It comes with two playable characters, local co-op play, several unlockables, and an achievement system.
06-02-2017 04:13 PM
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Garirry Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
I've played it, it's a pretty cool concept, but it's not very well done.

I've found the controls not very comfortable and imprecise, as well as there really not being that much of a 2.5D gimmick to begin with. If you've seen the Mega Man 3 Unity remake someone had been working a while now, you'd see that 2.5D just doesn't look that good. Besides that, the level design is pretty bad.
06-02-2017 05:45 PM
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Linzodakatz Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Well,it's a dang shame hearing that Mega Man 2.5D was a failure(not a total failure,but still a failure)


Guess I won't be playing it anytime soon

Licensed Game=Cash In

Well, most of the time anywho

-Linzo
06-02-2017 07:27 PM
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Thoron Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
As I mentioned earlier, I'll be playing this game soonish. Might as well see how it fun it is.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2017 07:56 PM by Thoron.)
06-02-2017 07:55 PM
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Flashman85 Offline
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RE: Mega Man 2.5D
I'll offer a counter-argument here. Yes, 2.5D has flaws. Yes, it's understandable to be disappointed if you've been hyped for this game for 8 years. But judging the game on what it SHOULD be instead of what it IS discredits all the positive aspects that make it worth playing.

The unique 2.5D perspective is, first and foremost, a visual element. It gives the game aesthetic character. Could it have been more integrated into the gameplay? Yes. But every stage utilizes the gimmick to some degree, whether it's subtle (eg, blocking your view with a pillar in the foreground) or overt (eg, the Mecha Dragon fight). New gimmicks are seldom used to their fullest extent the first time they appear in a game; I lament that the gravity-flipping gimmick in MM5 is underutilized, but the fact that it exists at all is a selling point, not a reason you shouldn't bother playing the game.

Few Mega Man fangames have perfect controls, and even the official Mega Man games have varying levels of polish and responsiveness in their controls. Fangames also tend to be buggy, but a public release is the best playtesting audience you could ask for; if the game is unplayable on release, that's one thing, but all the glitches I've seen and heard about are the kind that only become obvious through dedicated playtesting. If the developers don't bother patching the game to address these issues, THEN we can fault them for the bugs.

The weapon selection leaves something to be desired, but so does the weapon selection of several official Mega Man games. Setting aside the underpowered Quick Boomerang, the unreliable Star Crash, and the unnecessary overlap between Shadow Blade and Pharaoh Shot, you've got weapons that can attack in most directions, wipe the entire screen, reach floors below and walls above, bring fast-paced challenges to a more manageable speed, and cut through shields. That's diverse enough to be useful in almost any circumstance.

The level design is arguably the weakest point of the game, and there are a few challenges that are patently unfair and inconsiderate. Better and more frequent checkpoint placement would make a huge difference, as would a better learning curve in some stages; and more interesting enemy-based challenges (without the use of instant death) would be welcome. However, there's no shortage of creativity where gimmicks and tricky spike jumps are involved, and most of the challenges can be conquered reliably with practice. The bike chases in Star Man's stage and in one of the Wily stages inject some variety into the gameplay and indeed the series; the fake floors in Pharaoh Man's stage are arguably better executed than the ones in MM2; the snake trains in Snake Man's stage (particularly in multiplayer) are an interesting twist on a familiar gimmick and a thoughtful use of the stage's theme; and exploring a maze to track down a series of locking mechanisms in one of the Wily stages is not something you do every day in a Mega Man game. The fact that there's a co-op multiplayer mode is enough to give the game a try, and the fact that the levels are different and emphasize the use of teamwork is even more of a recommendation. If you're willing to put up with some lackluster or aggravating challenges here and there, you'll find that this game brings PLENTY of new ideas to the table, many of them legitimately well designed (regardless of where they fit in the scheme of learning curve or checkpoint placement).

Bonus material is just that—a bonus. The base game was designed around a character who can slide but can't charge. If being able to upgrade the character or play as a different character is a benefit, then great! If not, then it's just an extra feature you don't care about, same as a sound test or concept art gallery or all those joke characters in the LEGO games that nobody ever picks. And the fact that Achievements actually serve a purpose beyond bragging rights makes them more worthwhile than ever.

Was it worth waiting 8 years for 2.5D? Maybe not. Is 2.5D a terrible game with no redeeming values to justify trying it out? Hardly. Let's be clear about the line between our expectations for the game and the inherent value of the game.

No matter where you go, there you are.
06-02-2017 08:32 PM
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ApselTheBlue Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Flashman you should do game reviews bro. On youtube I mean. Great stuff just reading this. As for 2.5 D itself imo, I have mixed feelings about it but I am enjoying some parts of it.
07-02-2017 07:41 AM
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TheFallenAlchemist Offline
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RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Great observation, Flash Man. It isn't terrible. Not by a long shot. But there are some things that really irk me about this game:

Rock feels like a lead weight. I'm afraid to jump, because I don't feel loose. I feel scripted in my jumps. More often than not, I simply don't make jumps and the gravity/spike traps in Star Man's stage I found to be nigh impossible. I don't think I'll ever be able to pass the one after the shmup section.

Also, what possessed him to use a Quick Laser as a mid-boss's weapon, especially when characters cannot climb the ladders fast enough to avoid the one hit kill?

I found bosses easier after I unlocked Roll by looking at a mask. Her shot deals so much more damage to enemies and bosses.

Charge shot locked with three achievement points made me want to hack the game's code. You're kidding me, right?

As far as the overall aesthetics, it looks great. Like a professional title through and through. The remixed music tracks are decent and I like the presentation. It does what it means to.

My biggest problem (and I did address this to the creator who welcomes ALL critique) was the fact that I could not use energy cans while paused. Holy shit, did that make battles difficult. I barely finished some of these bosses, and I can't even get to others. That's a first!

They only plan to release one more patch with some fixes and more extra features, but that is because all focus is being put on an unknown independent IP which will appear on KickStarter shortly.

I'm sure the game is more exciting with two people, but it is very frustrating with just one.

Yeah, I review stuff: http://thegrimtower.com
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2017 11:30 AM by TheFallenAlchemist.)
07-02-2017 11:25 AM
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MrKyurem Offline
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RE: Mega Man 2.5D
(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  I'll offer a counter-argument here. Yes, 2.5D has flaws. Yes, it's understandable to be disappointed if you've been hyped for this game for 8 years. But judging the game on what it SHOULD be instead of what it IS discredits all the positive aspects that make it worth playing.

Even if you completely forget how long it took to make this game, it is still not a very well crafted game overall. Even Sunrise, which was made in merely 2 months, feels like it has more polish and attention to detail than this.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  The unique 2.5D perspective is, first and foremost, a visual element. It gives the game aesthetic character.

Said aesthetic character can look/act somewhat unappealing at times, such as when background tiles are used for the foreground, making it hard to differentiate the two, and when you can get hit by enemies that, due to being around a corner, are seemingly invisible.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Could it have been more integrated into the gameplay? Yes. But every stage utilizes the gimmick to some degree, whether it's subtle (eg, blocking your view with a pillar in the foreground) or overt (eg, the Mecha Dragon fight).

The pillars in the foreground aren't actually ever used as a gimmick though - the only time they're ever used is when it flat out doesn't matter, because gameplay doesn't change even slightly due to it. Also, I'd pick the Blue Devil as a usage of the gimmick over the Mecha Dragon fight - the Mecha Dragon fight could probably be replicated on a 2D plane fairly easily, while the Blue Devil can't be done as easily.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  New gimmicks are seldom used to their fullest extent the first time they appear in a game; I lament that the gravity-flipping gimmick in MM5 is underutilized, but the fact that it exists at all is a selling point, not a reason you shouldn't bother playing the game.

Mega Man 5's isn't called "Mega Man Gravity" and gravity isn't its main selling point, so that gets a pass. When your entire game's novelty revolves around a single concept, you're supposed to actually use said concept well.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Few Mega Man fangames have perfect controls, and even the official Mega Man games have varying levels of polish and responsiveness in their controls.

This does not excuse the poor controls in this game. We could all emulate MM1 and force an optional weapon to be used in the first fortress level, and point to that when people complain, but that doesn't make the design any worse. The same applies here.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Fangames also tend to be buggy, but a public release is the best playtesting audience you could ask for; if the game is unplayable on release, that's one thing, but all the glitches I've seen and heard about are the kind that only become obvious through dedicated playtesting.

They've had at least 4 public demos. That is beyond enough playtesting material to test things.

Also, dying on a penultimate boss and merely staying on the title screen for too long is not something that's only obvious through "dedicated playtesting" - that's something almost every user is going to find.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  If the developers don't bother patching the game to address these issues, THEN we can fault them for the bugs.

We can still fault them for leaving the bugs in in the first place after 4 "patches" in the form of demos and a full release.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  The weapon selection leaves something to be desired, but so does the weapon selection of several official Mega Man games.

Refer to what I said earlier about Mega Man 1. Rock Force has an amazing weapon selection, SFR and DWFA's weapon selections are all entertaining to use, MM2Atari managed to turn MM2's weapon set into a balanced weapon set where every weapon will have a use in a casual gameplay - having a good weapon set isn't some idealistic miracle of the future, it's what we expect as a standard.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Setting aside the underpowered Quick Boomerang, the unreliable Star Crash, and the unnecessary overlap between Shadow Blade and Pharaoh Shot, you've got weapons that can attack in most directions, wipe the entire screen, reach floors below and walls above, bring fast-paced challenges to a more manageable speed, and cut through shields. That's diverse enough to be useful in almost any circumstance.

You just cut out literally half of the entire weapon set there. I think that speaks enough for itself there. It also says a lot when the most unreliable weapon in the weapon set is also considered the best.

Time Slow and Tornado Hold are probably the least offending weapons in my book - which isn't exactly great, considering both are essentially utility weapons.
Quick Boomerang suffers a lot of overlap with Search Snake and Laser Trident as the "hit low enemies/bypass shields" weapon. It's fair from underpowered, though - if anything, Quick Boomerang is better at both of those jobs than their dedicated weapons, and on top of the high ammo count I found very little reason not to use Quick Boomerang over the buster.
Search Snake is significantly slower and more niche than the rest of the weapon set, and I do not feel its power output makes up for it. I only ever used it in Wily 2 to dispatch specific mines and against Ballade, and looking back I should probably have just used Star Crash in Wily 2.
Shadow Blade is a worse Pharaoh Shot, let's not beat around the bush. I've yet to find a single situation where Shadow Blade is more viable than Pharaoh Shot outside of weakness orders.
Laser Trident is occasionally useful for Sniper Joes when the Quick Boomerang can't deal with them and for clearing out breakable blocks the game likes to force in your way. That's pretty much it, really, which is odd considering how it's the most buster-y buster replacement there is.
Star Crash is definitely one of the most viable weapons in the game, however, I find it entertaining that it seems to actually fail at the intended use the developers seemed to want it to have (namely, getting rid of Pipis, which can easily bypass the inconsistency of the shield and hit you anyway.). If you're not using Quick Boomerang, chances are you're using this.
Pharaoh Shot is probably a pretty good weapon, but with the concerns of ammo, I never actually found a reason to use it over the previous weapons.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  The level design is arguably the weakest point of the game, and there are a few challenges that are patently unfair and inconsiderate.

That's an understatement if I've ever seen one. I should note that level design is one of the most important aspects of most games, and Mega Man is no exception. If your level design is the weakest point of the game, that's a serious issue that needs fixing.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Better and more frequent checkpoint placement would make a huge difference, as would a better learning curve in some stages; and more interesting enemy-based challenges (without the use of instant death) would be welcome.

While I do agree, I think that this won't be enough to redeem the game fully. Often the game doesn't do enough interesting things with the gimmicks as well - this is most notable in Wily 3, where every hammer segment is the same as the last.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  However, there's no shortage of creativity where gimmicks and tricky spike jumps are involved, and most of the challenges can be conquered reliably with practice.

They have a place and a purpose, yes, but that doesn't mean that they should be used everywhere. Most of the challenges being conquered with practice, and not skill, is probably one of the more alarming things of the design - Mega Man is a game of skill, and while the design would be very barren without challenges that require practice, I feel that a lot of it should be feasibly accomplishable on your first attempt if you have enough skill - and I know a lot of sections in 2.5D where this isn't the case.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  The bike chases in Star Man's stage and in one of the Wily stages inject some variety into the gameplay and indeed the series; the fake floors in Pharaoh Man's stage are arguably better executed than the ones in MM2;

Credit where it's due, the bike chases are fairly interesting, and I wouldn't say the Pharaoh floors are arguably better, I'd say they flat out are. They're introduced fairly and they're well telegraphed, and there's even an extra life that fakes you out and encourages you to play close attention to how the floors appear - they're definitely one of, if not the best, gimmick in terms of introduction and teaching in the game.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  the snake trains in Snake Man's stage (particularly in multiplayer) are an interesting twist on a familiar gimmick and a thoughtful use of the stage's theme; and exploring a maze to track down a series of locking mechanisms in one of the Wily stages is not something you do every day in a Mega Man game.

Both of these are true, but they both suffer from the same problem - they don't do anything with them. I've yet to play multiplayer, so I cannot comment on that usage yet, but in single player, the snake train appears once in the entire game and does nothing of interest or even remote challenge. The Wily 3 maze stage also is a very interesting concept and idea, and has a lot of novelty - but a key feature of a maze stage is that it's not monotonous, which this stage fails by using the same gimmicks and challenge layouts in all 3 paths.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  The fact that there's a co-op multiplayer mode is enough to give the game a try, and the fact that the levels are different and emphasize the use of teamwork is even more of a recommendation.

From what I know, I definitely agree with this. Even if the game is poorly designed, it's the first significant fangame to properly delve into the co-op concept in Mega Man, and a lot of notes can definitely be taken from this game in that aspect.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  If you're willing to put up with some lackluster or aggravating challenges here and there, you'll find that this game brings PLENTY of new ideas to the table, many of them legitimately well designed (regardless of where they fit in the scheme of learning curve or checkpoint placement).

Ideas are just ideas, though. We didn't give City War a bad score in MaGMML1 because its ideas were old and bland, we gave it a bad score because they were executed poorly. Ideas mean nothing if you cannot properly use them.

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Bonus material is just that—a bonus. The base game was designed around a character who can slide but can't charge. If being able to upgrade the character or play as a different character is a benefit, then great! If not, then it's just an extra feature you don't care about, same as a sound test or concept art gallery or all those joke characters in the LEGO games that nobody ever picks. And the fact that Achievements actually serve a purpose beyond bragging rights makes them more worthwhile than ever.

This argument deconstructs itself - you argue that it doesn't matter if bonus content isn't very good, as it's just bonus content, but you then follow up by pointing out that it takes significant effort to get said bonus content. If I just completed the game without using a single E tank, or just perfect ran an entire stage, I expect to get something good as a reward. I don't want a "black and white mode and sepia mode" bonus or a "bonus level which is actually just instant death spammed everywhere" bonus. I want an actual reward. If your bonus content is not good, it is not worth being in the game. Sound tests and galleries have use when getting to see said scenes/hear said sounds ingame can be hard - but here, half of the gallery is dedicated to trailer images you can find online incredibly easily. Even joke characters have a level of quality to them - they're entertaining to play as, entertaining to even watch, and it provides an extra level of challenge. Here, even Dr. Light, the designated joke character, isn't very entertaining. Their novelty wears off incredibly quickly as they have no "joke-y" qualities apart from their slide, which quickly becomes frustrating due to its slow nature, and even the easiest way to get actual entertainment or laughter out of the character - when they rescue Dr. (actual) Light - is completely anti-climatic, as all potential entertainment is thrown away with a lazy copy+paste of Mega Man's dialogue, but with "Mega Man" being replaced with "Robot Dr. Light."

(06-02-2017 08:32 PM)Flashman85 Wrote:  Was it worth waiting 8 years for 2.5D? Maybe not. Is 2.5D a terrible game with no redeeming values to justify trying it out? Hardly. Let's be clear about the line between our expectations for the game and the inherent value of the game.

I think you misunderstand why a lot of people comment on the whole "8 years" thing - they're not commenting on it because this game is bad for a game that took 8 years to make, they're commenting on it because this game is flat out bad regardless of how long it took, and the fact that it took 8 years when other, significantly better fangames were made in much shorter time spans is merely the icing on the cake.

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(This post was last modified: 07-02-2017 02:21 PM by MrKyurem.)
07-02-2017 02:10 PM
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RE: Mega Man 2.5D
(07-02-2017 07:41 AM)ApselTheBlue Wrote:  Flashman you should do game reviews bro. On youtube I mean.

Thanks! I much prefer the "text with screenshots" format, but I do try to review games as I play them on Twitch and YouTube, so that's kinda close, right?

(07-02-2017 02:10 PM)MrKyurem Wrote:  The pillars in the foreground aren't actually ever used as a gimmick though - the only time they're ever used is when it flat out doesn't matter, because gameplay doesn't change even slightly due to it. Also, I'd pick the Blue Devil as a usage of the gimmick over the Mecha Dragon fight - the Mecha Dragon fight could probably be replicated on a 2D plane fairly easily, while the Blue Devil can't be done as easily.

There are definitely a couple places where a strategically placed pillar or asteroid blocks your view. It may not be as dramatic a gimmick as seen in the Blue Devil fight, but it can definitely impact the gameplay—I can personally attest to nearly dying on one or two relatively straightforward challenges because my view was obscured.

The Blue Devil fight could easily be replicated on a 2D plane; just have the floor architecture morph back and forth between two different layouts. What's neat about the Mecha Dragon fight is coming around the corner and seeing the boss continue to fly past the corner and into the camera; I'd say that's harder to duplicate in 2D. The perspective doesn't always tie in directly with the physical design of the level, but it often has the potential to leave a psychological impact on the player—awe, surprise, nervous anticipation—that is an intangible component of the challenge.

Quote:When your entire game's novelty revolves around a single concept, you're supposed to actually use said concept well.

2.5D's website describes the game as an attempt to make a playable game out of a proof-of-concept, with the use of camera perspective changes ("featured a lot in the single-player mode of the game") as one main difference from other Mega Man games. The release trailer proclaims no more than "A NEW TAKE ON A CLASSIC SERIES." The game is playable. Sometimes the camera perspective changes. No other Mega Man game uses the 2.5D format. All stated goals have been met. There's no talk of a revolutionary new 2.5D world, no promise of blowing your mind with elaborate challenges that leverage the camera gimmick. I think we'd all like to see MORE of the camera shifting, but it sounds like you're holding the game to a standard it isn't trying to meet.

Quote:They've had at least 4 public demos. That is beyond enough playtesting material to test things.

I am inclined to agree. But it really depends on who the playtesters were and what their feedback was.

Some people are terrible at articulating specifics, or forget to report specific issues in the midst of all their other comments. I would guess that the general public isn't as well versed as we are in how a Mega Man game should feel. And there may have been conflicting feedback—I've taken a peek at the responses to the game outside of Sprites INC, and even though my sample size isn't very large, basically all the comments I've read have been positive. The one negative comment I saw was that the game is frustratingly hard in places, but that was downplayed and accepted as part of the game. So if you've got a few refined game design critics telling you that Star Man's stage is preposterous, and everyone else saying your game as a whole is amazing, it's easy to defer to the opinion of the masses.

It's entirely possible that the developers deliberately ignored valid criticism or did a bad job of incorporating good feedback. It's also possible that they had way too many casual, inarticulate testers diluting the feedback, or lots of people who honestly enjoyed the game the way it was. I don't know what the reality is, but I'm willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:Also, dying on a penultimate boss and merely staying on the title screen for too long is not something that's only obvious through "dedicated playtesting" - that's something almost every user is going to find.

I've played two different betas and the recent updated release, and I don't think I've encountered whatever you're talking about. I guess I'm in the "almost" category.

Quote:... having a good weapon set isn't some idealistic miracle of the future, it's what we expect as a standard.

I'll defend the weapon selection enough to say that it's sufficiently useful to get you through the game (and, frankly, I'd take 2.5D's weapons over a few of the arsenals in the official games), but I agree that it falls well short of the standard.

Quote:Shadow Blade is a worse Pharaoh Shot, let's not beat around the bush. I've yet to find a single situation where Shadow Blade is more viable than Pharaoh Shot outside of weakness orders.

If there is an enemy directly above you, and you don't have enough time to charge up Pharaoh Shot, Shadow Blade does the job. And I've managed to hit a few enemies on the rebound when I just barely miss a moving target. But specific enemy vulnerabilities aside, there is no practical reason for both weapons to be in the same game.

Quote:Most of the challenges being conquered with practice, and not skill, is probably one of the more alarming things of the design - Mega Man is a game of skill, and while the design would be very barren without challenges that require practice, I feel that a lot of it should be feasibly accomplishable on your first attempt if you have enough skill - and I know a lot of sections in 2.5D where this isn't the case.

I dunno; when I first started playing Mega Man, I had no skill and spent weeks, if not months, practicing the levels. Where 2.5D's challenges are very similar to ones I've already faced in a Mega Man game, I can breeze through on a first attempt. Where they are different or notably harder, I practice until I develop the skill to overcome them, just like I do with any other challenge. It took me two sittings to play through 2.5D on Hard Mode, having skipped over Easy and Normal (but having dabbled in the levels in beta). MM9 and 10 each took me at least twice as long on Normal.

Skill varies from player to player, and certain playstyles can make challenges feel easier or harder; the important point for me is that there are few challenges that continue to feel outrageous after I've put in a modest amount of practice.

Quote:Ideas are just ideas, though. We didn't give City War a bad score in MaGMML1 because its ideas were old and bland, we gave it a bad score because they were executed poorly. Ideas mean nothing if you cannot properly use them.

This is pure personal preference and not based on any conception of good game design, but I would rather play a poorly executed but creative game than a well executed but dull game. I'm at a skill level where I can put up with problematic controls and unnecessary difficulty from bad design; I already have enough well-crafted games in my library to keep me entertained for life, but I play new games because I want new experiences. When a new game comes out that uses 2.5D's ideas in a better way, I'll play that one instead; in the meantime, I'm willing to accept some of 2.5D's flaws, because I value a new experience more than a perfectly polished experience.

Quote:This argument deconstructs itself - you argue that it doesn't matter if bonus content isn't very good, as it's just bonus content, but you then follow up by pointing out that it takes significant effort to get said bonus content.

I argue that Achievements, which in my view are generally a lazy way of superficially increasing the replay value of a game, actually serve a function that makes them worth pursuing. If you care about Achievements, then you'll pursue them no matter what they unlock. If you don't normally care about Achievements, the existence of bonus content might get you to try a few. If the bonus material is good, then you're rewarded for doing something that you were going to do anyhow, or that you went out of your way to do. If the bonus material is terrible, then either you don't care because you were only going for the Achievements themselves, or you have a reason not to bother with Achievements that you didn't want to go after in the first place. In an age where we can Google what the bonus content is like, there's no reason to expend extra effort doing something you don't want to do for the sake of something you wouldn't want to unlock.

No matter where you go, there you are.
07-02-2017 07:40 PM
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TheFallenAlchemist Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
I'm sending this thread to the creator. He welcomes all critiques, as I mentioned.

As a heads up, a new version of the game released with fixes and tweaks. They apparently fixed the way the energy cans work, so I can actually finish the game now.

Yeah, I review stuff: http://thegrimtower.com
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2017 10:53 PM by TheFallenAlchemist.)
07-02-2017 10:43 PM
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Cruise Elroy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
I'd say the main thing this game has going for it is its 2.5D gimmick. It can end up looking cool in some areas (and I actually happen to like the occasional "transition" effect that happens once in a while), but ultimately removing the Z axis leaves you with a generally standard Mega Man game. Y'know, jump n' shoot, 8 robots, and Wily. You could argue that what we have for the 2.5D gimmick now is passable, but at the same time it could have been used a little more creatively like it was in the concept trailers. I don't think anyone would disagree that Mighty No 9's concept art looks better than the final game. Ultimately it just feels like a lot of good ideas were left out in favor of getting it out the door. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all -- Rock Force has a whole lot more content now than when it was first released and look at how well that's doing! If we're lucky the game may be receiving an update that changes a few things here and there to make it more enjoyable.

If you like the game the way it is now, good for you. If you didn't, that's understandable as well. 8 years may have been a bit of a let-down to what we have, but I don't think it's that terrible. I at least had fun with it.
08-02-2017 02:33 AM
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TheFallenAlchemist Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Hold on. They're still working on Rock Force? Wow. That's quite surprising. I remember playing that one years ago, and it was definitely a favorite.

Yeah, I review stuff: http://thegrimtower.com
08-02-2017 04:46 AM
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Kallisto Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
I made a mention to the creator to add Custom Music Support, and definitely liked the idea, so expect that to be in the next update or so.
08-02-2017 07:28 AM
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TheFallenAlchemist Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Cool. I love how they're taking critiques from fans in order to make the game better.

Yeah, I review stuff: http://thegrimtower.com
08-02-2017 11:10 AM
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DDRKhat Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Hello there, I am part of the development team for Megaman 2.5D. I wanted to thank you for the critique here and wanted to offer you guys a platform to throw questions / get answers from me. This is in an effort to try and further improve and tighten our little fan game so that even more fans can enjoy it.

I'll be poking my head in here on occasion but it would be greatly appreciated if you guys could get down to the nitty gritty about what feels off/incorrect to you so we can focus on what we need to clean up further.
08-02-2017 04:55 PM
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ACESpark Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Cool, always good to hear that sort of thing.

I'd offer my thoughts but.. er.. my current issue is that I can't even get the game to *run*, despite trying the steps on the website. It's pretty bizarre.
Specifically: I try to open the EXE.. and nothing happens. Period.

For the record, I have tried both the installer version and the straight download version.

08-02-2017 05:00 PM
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notencore Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
Huh, so we're doing this huh.

I'll probably do my full writeup on this game later, but for what I can say right now: Go play RKS instead. :^)
08-02-2017 06:07 PM
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DDRKhat Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
(08-02-2017 05:00 PM)ACESpark Wrote:  Cool, always good to hear that sort of thing.

I'd offer my thoughts but.. er.. my current issue is that I can't even get the game to *run*, despite trying the steps on the website. It's pretty bizarre.
Specifically: I try to open the EXE.. and nothing happens. Period.

For the record, I have tried both the installer version and the straight download version.

Incase anyones curious. We got this working for ACESpark. They needed to uninstall .NET framework that came with Windows10 (because Micro$haft sucks).
08-02-2017 07:57 PM
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TheFallenAlchemist Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Mega Man 2.5D
(08-02-2017 06:07 PM)notencore Wrote:  Huh, so we're doing this huh.

I'll probably do my full writeup on this game later, but for what I can say right now: Go play RKS instead. :^)

OK, OK. Yes I praised that game and I highly recommend it, but 2.5D can be pretty fun as well.

One issue I had in the past (may have been fixed) was the issue with the Quick Man laser mid boss moving a bit too fast for the character's ladder climbing speed.

The second problem I had was with two of the gravity jumps in Star Man's stage. I feel that I have to move as far on the platform as possible before I can make the jump and often do not.

The second jump I absolutely could not pass deals with the section after the shmup portion of the stage. You fall down a long corridor and then face a pit of spikes with a downward gravity panel right above it. As of 1.0, the character could not make the jump when jumping from the highest position.

The final issue I have is with the charge shot being an unlockable with three achievement points. I kind of wish it was just a regular feature.

Yeah, I review stuff: http://thegrimtower.com
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2017 01:47 AM by TheFallenAlchemist.)
09-02-2017 01:45 AM
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